KAREN BREWSTER: This is Karen Brewster. Today is May 7, 2024, and I’m here in Anchorage, Alaska, at the US Forest Service offices, speaking with Annette Heckart about the Iditarod National Historic Trail, and more specifically the iTREC! program. The Idit -- teachers in every classroom project.

So thank you for taking the time today, Annette. ANNETTE HECKART: Absolutely. KAREN BREWSTER: Before we get into the nitty gritty of iTREC!, can you give me a little bit of background about yourself. And where -- ANNETTE HECKART: Sure. KAREN BREWSTER: -- you come from and -- ANNETTE HECKART: Sure. KAREN BREWSTER: -- how you got to this point?

ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah, so um -- so I’ve been working with the Forest Service 25-plus years. I think I stopped counting after 25.

Um, but I came to Alaska right out of college and started volunteering for the Forest Service up here back in ’93. Um, and I’ve kind of worked my way up through the organization ever since.

KAREN BREWSTER: And what’s your current position title? ANNETTE HECKART: My current position, I’m the Regional Program Manager for Interpretation and Conservation Education for the Alaska Region of the Forest Service. KAREN BREWSTER: Well, that’s a big mouthful. ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah, it doesn’t fit nicely on a card.

KAREN BREWSTER: No. Um, and so where are you from originally? ANNETTE HECKART: Originally, um, I was born in Wisconsin, and I grew up in Georgia. So after I graduated from the University of Georgia, I came to Alaska to volunteer for the summer for the Forest Service.

KAREN BREWSTER: And is your degree in environmental education, interpretation? ANNETTE HECKART: I have a degree in biology, actually. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. ANNETTE HECKART: Mm-hm.

KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. And so, how did you end up playing a role in iTREC!? ANNETTE HECKART: In iTREC!, so -- KAREN BREWSTER: And what was your role?

ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah. So um, oh gosh, I have to go way back. Uh, it’s probably around the 2010's or so. Um, and I had been working with Judy Bittner and Jaime Schmid, who was our -- Jaime Schmidt, sorry, who was our trail program manager for the National Forest here, and for the region, actually. And so, she had the, the um -- she oversaw the Iditarod National Historic Trail, you know, operations on the National Forest here.

And so, in working with both Judy and Jaime, they had gone back to, I believe it was a "Hike the Hill" session in D.C. where they heard from the National Park Service on a program that they had been conducting, which was called "Trail to Every Classroom," and it was connected to the Appalachian Trail.

And the person in charge of that was Rita Hennessy. And Rita's just a fireball. She’s a real go-getter. And -- and she presented this program, and I -- while I wasn’t there, my understanding is, you know, everyone’s hands shot up in the room, and was like, we want to know more, we want to know more.

Um, but Jaime and Judy were able to get Rita’s attention. I think the Iditarod has a lot of allure to it.

And so, um, they connected, learned a bit more about the Trail to Every Classroom program. Rita actually invited myself and a couple of other folks, uh, over to the East Coast to see what the program was all about. To actually go through their teacher professional development training with them so that we could see it firsthand, what it all entailed. So I actually got to go back a couple of times to see the program in -- in different areas.

And um, yeah, it was just -- it was kind of a -- it was a really great connection. And we felt like it was a really nice and natural fit for the Iditarod Trail here. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. ANNETTE HECKART: Especially given the fact that, you know, Alaska is -- is large and a lot of remote places, especially along the Iditarod.

And what a really cool way to connect communities and people, you know, via this trail. So that was kind of the very very beginnings of the program.

KAREN BREWSTER: And you got pulled in because Jaime was with the Forest Service? ANNETTE HECKART: Mm-hm. KAREN BREWSTER: And came to you?

ANNETTE HECKART: Yes, so we worked -- we worked very closely together. Actually, we sit side by side with each other.

Um, and I had been working with both Jaime and Judy with the Iditarod and some other, you know, outreach-type projects prior to this, but um, so we’d all kind of collaborated before on other projects.

KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. Um, and so, the name -- I was wondering where the name iTREC! came from. ANNETTE HECKART: Mm-hm. KAREN BREWSTER: And so, the Appalachian Trail for Every Classroom became the Iditarod Trail for Every Classroom?

ANNETTE HECKART: Yes. Mm-hm. Yeah, they call theirs TTEC, and we called ours iTREC!. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh. Adapted? ANNETTE HECKART: We did, yes.

KAREN BREWSTER: And then you guys had a logo, too, didn’t you? Do you have a logo, or not? ANNETTE HECKART: Um, we didn’t. We always used the, uh, National Historic Trail logo. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh. Ok. ANNETTE HECKART: In association with it, yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. Yeah, and Forest Service part of the trail doesn’t have its own logo. It’s one logo for the whole trail? ANNETTE HECKART: One logo for the whole trail, correct. Mm-hm.

KAREN BREWSTER: Right. Ok. Um, so tell me more about the iTREC! program. Like, how did you guys get it off the ground?

ANNETTE HECKART: Oh, that’s a great question. So we -- we did a lot of, um -- We did a lot of research with TTEC and the Park Service. Like I said, Rita was a wonderful wealth of information. She was more than happy to share all of their successes, all of their failures, all of their products, everything, with us.

And as part of that, even their trainers. And so, their primary trainer is Delia Clark, and um, so we were able to make that connection.

And Delia is -- she’s traveled the world teaching on place-based education, service learning. And that was really kind of the foundational piece of TTEC and iTREC! is place-based service learning, so really connecting students to place to make a difference, to make a change in their community.

And so, um -- so with working with all of them, and our partners at BLM and the Iditarod Historic Trail Alliance, we just started brain-storming and -- and kind of adapted, uh, the program at TTEC because -- excuse me (coughs) -- they have a much -- obviously a much higher population base than we do. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

ANNETTE HECKART: Here in Alaska, our population, you know, is kind of centered in -- in certain areas.

Um, they did a series of -- of trainings, kind of like regional trainings with teachers up along -- all along the Appalachian Trail, and then would come together in kind of this big, culminating summer program.

And so, we took it a little bit different, and we were like, uh, we don’t really have that population base to be able to do those regional-type trainings, so we -- we decided that we would do kind of a cohort of teachers, um, and bring them together face-to-face three times a year. The kickoff would be in the summertime with a real in-depth, week-long program.

And, you know, we -- starting out, we -- we hoped for the best. We crossed our fingers, and -- and we did outreach, you know, in our communities to our teachers. And -- and we, you know, we pulled together all the parts and pieces, and we crossed our fingers, and we hoped that everybody would show up on that first day.

And my gosh, they actually did. I remember being amazed, I’m like, "Oh my gosh, they’re here! They showed up. This is wonderful."

Um, and it was always really fun, because you would get educators -- we would encourage teachers to come in at least pairs, or even bigger groups from a particular school, just so that they would have that support when they went back.

But it didn’t always happen. Sometimes there were single teachers from a, you know, a school here or there, especially, you know, in some of our more rural communities.

And that first week, it was always -- it was always kind of fun, no matter how -- you know, whichever year we were in the program. You kind of always had the same look on your face of like, "I’m not really sure what I signed up for. What am I doing?"

And um, as the week went on, it became clearer and clearer to all of them. And by the end of the week, they were all like, "This is amazing. We’re really excited. We’re really jazzed." We’re -- you know, and it always kinda --

Our week -- kind of our beginning week for iTREC! always occurred shortly before the start of the new school year. So it was a really nice way to kind of elevate the energy, get teachers to think creatively outside the box, and -- and really kind of, um, think about all of those other community partners that are out there that can help support them.

Um, I think that wa -- that’s a big -- it always has been a big kind of foundational piece for iTREC! is -- is developing partnerships to support our educators.

And year after year, it was -- it was almost like clockwork every time, we would -- we would do a big partner day where we brought in just partners from all kind of aspects of the community, whether they were state, federal, local partners to introduce themselves to the teachers, let them do what we called speed dating with our teachers, um, to get to know each other one on one.

And every year, that was always the most popular piece. And every year, the teachers were like, "I had no idea there were so many people that were out there to support us." KAREN BREWSTER: Wow.

ANNETTE HECKART: No idea. And it was like, yes. We’re out here in force. We want to help. Um, so -- so that was always really, really exciting.

And then we had another shorter face-to-face in the fall and the spring, just a three-day, kind of a Friday, Saturday, Sunday-type, um, meeting.

And we would do it -- all of our locations were along the Iditarod Trail somewhere. We usually started in Anchorage. That was a easy, kind of central location to pull together for the week. And then, we’d be in Seward, usually in the fall, and then Nome in the spring.

Um, and it was always really great when they came back in the fall ’cause they got really excited about seeing each other, number one. Um, and the -- and the other piece of it that we didn’t really even anticipate, because we weren’t classroom teachers ourselves, was just the, um -- the support that they felt from their other teachers. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

ANNETTE HECKART: That was just -- It was pretty amazing. It always shocked me. It was like, "Oh my gosh, I -- I hadn't -- "

I really didn’t understand how isolating it can be sometimes in the classroom for educators, and just them knowing that there was this bigger cohort out there, doing the same things, um, kind of the same mindset as them, and that they could reach out and -- and connect and bounce ideas off of each other was really -- it was really -- it was great.

It wasn’t anything that we had intentionally set out to do, but it was a wonderful additional benefit of the program.

KAREN BREWSTER: How much support did they get from their own home schools and home districts?

ANNETTE HECKART: It really varied. There were some, um, you know, schools where the administrators were like, "Yes, this is great, and we’re going to support you."

You know, and then there were others that were just kind of like, "We need to hit these benchmarks, and we’ve got this testing. We’ve got this, and we don’t have time for this other stuff."

But um -- but one of the -- one of the other pieces of iTREC! is -- that we really tried to instill is that this isn’t an add-on for the classroom. This is really kind of a different way of -- of meeting all of those requirements you have to meet. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

ANNETTE HECKART: But just doing it in a little bit different way. Um, and that whatever you can teach inside, we’re pretty darn sure you can teach outside, as well. And there’s a lot of added benefits of getting your students outside.

So yeah, so I -- you know, I would say that the support for educators really ran the gamut from -- We had -- we had some, you know, that were whole-heartedly supported by their administrators in the school, and others that just felt like, you know, they were on a lone island out there.

But even for those, I think the benefit was knowing that they had other -- other teachers that they’d gone through the program with. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. ANNETEE HECKART: That were there to support them. And -- and I think that was really, really pretty unique and cool.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah, did any of the teachers ever get or ask for financial support from their district? Or -- ANNETTE HECKART: Um -- KAREN BREWSTER: -- was it all paid by iTREC!?

ANNETTE HECKART: Well, so um, iTREC! did cover all of the costs, uh, for it, so provided -- and that was through the Alliance. It was a huge, huge support from the Alliance.

So they covered, um, the majority of travel for teachers, and food. Food, lodging, and travel, um, which was huge. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

ANNETTE HECKART: The only thing that the teachers had to cover were if they chose to get professional development through the University of Alaska Anchorage. Um, and even at that, it was a pretty low rate to get those professional development credits.

So that was the only cost that they had to incur. And again, it was optional if they wanted to do that.

But um, but yeah, it was a huge, huge underwriting by the Alliance and -- and incredibly generous.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah, and especially the people coming from some of the smaller communities out on the trail. ANNETTE HECKART: Yep. Yes. KAREN BREWSTER: Challenging. ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah, absolutely. Mm-hm.

KAREN BREWSTER: Um, can you talk a little bit about place-based learning and why that is important? ANNETTE HECKART: Mm-hm. KAREN BREWSTER: And how it helps kids and students?

ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah, absolutely. So, kinda the premise with iTREC! is combining place-based learning with service learning.

So, really grounding students to where they are in the world, right. Whether that is their classroom, their school yard, their neighborhood, their community, um, and really making things relevant to that area. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

ANNETTE HECKART: Like, you know, ’cause I think a lot of times, we’ve probably all seen this, where, you know, they’re educating the kids on the rain forest, and while that is super important, making that connection with some young minds, of like, well, sure, this is super important, but it -- there’s kind of really no concrete concepts for them there ’cause there’s -- you know, there’s nothing that they can relate to. So it’s really kind of that place-based piece of really grounding them in their community where they are.

And then the service piece is -- is really helping them look at their community, their place, and understanding what those needs are, and then what role they can play.

Um, and I think that that last piece is really the big, valuable piece, because I think a lot of times for -- for students, you know, they’re told a lot of stuff, and it’s like, well, here’s all these big, scary problems, and -- and this is what we adults are doing to -- to fix those. But helping them understand that everybody has a role to play in solving a lot of these problems.

And we saw that play out in a variety of ways, uh, through this program. And from, you know, second graders going to present at, um, community meetings, uh, and with the municipality, to share their thoughts and ideas about green spaces next to their school and what it should and shouldn’t have, or how they could be a part of that.

Uh, to students, um, down in Seward advocating for their part of the community to be included in a protected watershed for salmon habitat.

And, you know, that -- I believe it was fifth graders bringing together community partners to ask questions and have them talk to each other and -- and hear how, you know, all of these different entities are coming together to help resolve problems, and -- and sharing their ideas, too, what their thoughts are on some of these problems and issues of like, why is this happening, and why couldn’t we do this, and, you know -- and a lot of the adult partners going, those are really great ideas. You know, we’ve never talked. We’ve never been in the same room together.

So um, so it’s kind of like, never underestimate your power as a community member. So I -- I really felt like that was a -- a huge piece of iTREC!.

And, you know, and coming at it from, you know, Forest Service, or federal agency point of view, where I saw the big value is that, you know, we have very limited staff and limited resources, so to have Forest Service personnel or probably any of our, you know, partner personnel going into the classroom all the time to, you know, do this, we’re limited on what we can do.

But when we empower teachers and students to kinda go forth, I equate it to just kinda throwing a pebble into the water, right. But, it just kinda the ripple just keeps growing and growing and growing.

And so, I felt like we were just kinda that little pebble of -- of -- of starting that ripple, and then wherever it -- it ended, it was really -- it was really up to the students as to how far it would go and how far they would take it.

But, hopefully, leaving them with this really empowered feeling of being an active member of their community, an important member of their community, too.

KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. Well, you mentioned about kids going outside. ANNETTE HECKART: Mm-hm. KAREN BREWSTER: And learning outside. Talk a little bit about why that’s important. ANNETTE HECKART: Absolutely.

KAREN BREWSTER: And how that’s, um, should become part of the educational system.

ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah. Well, I -- You know, I might be a little biased because I work for a land managing agency, but -- KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

ANNETTE HECKART: So we’re a little partial to the out-of-doors. But, you know, there’s a whole host -- and there’s so much research that has been done on the value of -- of being outside.

From whether that is just, you know, behavioral issues to health issues. Um, you name it, it runs the gamut.

But I also feel like, you know, when students can kinda see and do, it’s usually a lot easier to learn. And so, when -- when lessons become more hands-on, more real-world, I think there’s a lot of benefits to that.

KAREN BREWSTER: And do you remember the first year of iTREC!, how many teachers you had in that cohort, or approximately?

ANNETTE HECKART: Oh, approximately, I think we had -- Hm, yeah, I’d have to go back and look, but I think it was eighteen.

So we tried to keep each year between fifteen and eighteen teachers. We -- we intentionally kept it small, um, just because we felt that building those connections and having time for teachers to interact with each other, discuss, talk about ideas, share ideas.

It worked really well in a smaller type of cohort than if, say, we tried to dump fifty or a hundred teachers. It’s just a very different feel.

I think all throughout iTREC! it was always kind of more of this intimate experience with the teachers. And we heard over and over again how well-supported they felt from all of the -- all of the partners and throughout the training and that.

And that it was a really different training than what they had been provided through a lot of their school districts, you know.

To really kind of feel that, you know, that they were special. Um, and, you know, which, again, kind of shocked me a little bit, but um, anyway. So we were glad to -- we were glad to be able to -- to do that.

KAREN BREWSTER: Um, and where have most of the teachers come from?

ANNETTE HECKART: Um, well, you know, I would say Southcentral primarily, just because that’s where the population base is.

Um, but we have certainly had teachers from, you know, Nome to Seward. But the bulk of them have come through Mat-Su School District and Anchorage School District. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: Um, and can you talk about what you teach them in that week-long session? ANNETTE HECKART: Mm-hm. KAREN BREWSTER: Sort of what the -- I don’t know, it’s a curriculum of a workshop, I guess? ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: I don’t know.

ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah. So um, it’s really kind of -- it’s really focused on the place-based service learning aspect, and so that kind of runs, you know, that thread kind of runs throughout the first week-long session of it.

And um, that’s kind of the -- the -- the premise was like what does that mean to really connect your students to place, and what does it mean to really move into that service piece, to become an active member of their community?

And then, we sprinkle in kind of those, uh, messages from our different partners, from our land managing agencies, Forest Service and Bureau of Land Management, and -- and the Iditarod Historic Trail Alliance, you know, history of the trail. What does that mean?

What -- You know, what -- what is their role in -- in the history of the trail now? You know, the -- um, and what is that story going to be?

Uh, and then again, the big part of it, too, is introducing them to a variety of partners that are out there.

We sprinkle in different techniques, too, you know, from just kind of some, we call them hip-pocket activities, of ways to engage students out-of-doors.

Um, and so, there was a lot of -- there was a lot of kind of variety interaction. Um, we really tried to limit the amount of time that we were sitting there, talking. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. ANNETTE HECKART: You know, as a talking-head to anybody, but we really wanted them to be active and doing.

And then, a big portion of it, too, is, you know, the outcome of the year-long program is that these teachers would develop their own place-based service learning curriculum that would work for them and their students in their school.

So we weren’t actually -- we weren’t giving them anything that they were going to take and do that we created. We were just helping guide them to create something that worked for them, which I think was a big part of the success of a lot of the programs there.

Because it was really tailored to what they needed, and their students needed.

KAREN BREWSTER: So you -- you -- So those activities were sort of examples of things -- ANNETTE HECKART: Mm-hm. KAREN BREWSTER: -- they could do? So what are some of those activities that --?

ANNETTE HECKART: Oh, sure. The hip-pocket activities, from, oh gosh, a really fun one is taking a series of little paint chips, paint samples that you can get at the hardware store. Uh, and you go out and into the outdoors, and it could really be anywhere, a little green space.

And, you know, kids can just kind of pick a color, and they go off, and they have to find something in nature that matches.

And -- and the fun thing is really kind of some of these wild and outrageous colors, and uh, to try to find something that matches. And, you know, nine times out of ten, you always can find something in nature that really matches somewhere on those crazy color wheels.

So um, those were fun. There’s different things, listening for sounds that you hear, or kind of getting really microscopic and -- and investigating just a really, really tiny place and -- and seeing what’s -- what's in there.

So it was really kind of sharing all of these best practices, and we always welcomed the teachers to share what they had, too. So uh, it was creating this network for educators to share ideas, share resources, um, you name it.

So it was really fun. Really fun to see kind of all of that exchange taking place.

KAREN BREWSTER: And so those activities that you did, did you do some for, you know, K-2 and some for high school? I mean, it’s a very different activity to do for the different grade levels.

ANNETTE HECKART: It is, but surprisingly enough, you know, some of these work on a wide range of students. So I -- I think that you could do the color activity with K-12. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

ANNETTE HECKART: And they would still -- so again, a lot of those were kind of, you know, our hip-pocket activities were -- were kind of these focusing or centering activities. It wasn’t really the primary focus. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. ANNETTE HECKART: ’Cause that’s what we wanted our -- our teachers that were going through the program to create and figure out.

But these were, you know, things that you could add in throughout the -- the bigger curriculum, of ways to engage with your surroundings, or just kind of focus attention, or --

KAREN BREWSTER: When I -- when I first heard about iTREC! and I thought, "Oh, it’s the Iditarod Trail." They’re -- they're doing classroom projects about the trail. ANNETTE HECKART: Mm-hm.

KAREN BREWSTER: Or if you’re in, you know, Nome, you go out on the trail and -- and do something. But they’re not all related specifically to the trail, are they?

ANNETTE HECKART: Not all of them were. Um, you know, some were. Some manifested into development of interpretive signage about the Iditarod.

Um, but I would -- I would also say that a big piece of this, even though maybe not all of the -- the teacher projects culminated in an Iditarod Trail activity, we definitely moved the needle in education about the historic trail.

Because time and time again, the feedback that we got was, "I had no idea that this was a national historic trail. I thought it was just a race." KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. ANNETTE HECKART: Over and over and over again. So even that, it was like, all right. We did it. We did it.

KAREN BREWSTER: Now, can you get it too out to the rest of the general public? ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah, exactly. Yep. Mm-hm.

KAREN BREWSTER: Um, and so, the funding. You said it was from the Trail Alliance only. Is how all this was funded?

ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah, so a variety of ways. Um, certainly all the partners contributed, whether that was, you know, hard dollars, either through an agreement or -- or purchasing of materials or in-kind with, um, you know, existing materials, products, or staff time.

So it was really kind of a collaborative effort from year to year.

KAREN BREWSTER: And um, how did that work, partnering? I mean, it was you, and Jaime and Judy, and Luise, and Delia? ANNETTE HECKART: Mm-hm. KAREN BREWSTER: And maybe Kevin? I don’t know. ANNETTE HECKART: Yep. KAREN BREWSTER: But -- ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: You know, that’s a big -- all different agencies and partners. And how do you get all that to work together?

ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah, well, because the Iditarod Historic Trail Alliance is a non-profit, um, and both agencies already had existing agreements with them, so it was pretty easy to work together on this.

Um, and obviously, kind of the missions outcomes of this program aligned well with both Forest Service and BLM and the Alliance, so it was kind of a win-win for -- for all of us there.

So it wasn’t too hard on the -- on the financial piece to -- to be able to either -- if we had additional funding that we could get to the Alliance, you know, through our -- through our agreements, we could certainly do that.

KAREN BREWSTER: What about just between the people and communication and collaboration and finding time in all of your busy work days?

ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah, you know, I would say we were a pretty well-oiled team. Our group, it was kind of the four of us between Luise, myself, Judy, and Delia. Um, we work really, really well together. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

ANNETTE HECKART: Um, certainly always a challenge with all these different schedules, but --

KAREN BREWSTER: Well, and I was thinking, the different agencies do have different missions between BLM and Forest Service.

ANNETTE HECKART: They do. You know, BLM and Forest Service are probably pretty closely -- closely aligned, you know, both multiple use missions there.

So um, yeah, we’re -- we're pretty closely aligned on that, especially when it comes to education.

KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. And the State of Alaska was not involved in any of this? Since they are a land owner on the trail, as well.

ANNETTE HECKART: Right. Um, no, you know, we -- we certainly -- we certainly did have state agencies come and participate, especially in the partner days. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

ANNETTE HECKART: Um, but as kind of a primary partner in it, there was not -- and I wouldn’t say that there wasn’t the interest, but there maybe just wasn’t the capacity or the funding, um, that allowed them to do that.

KAREN BREWSTER: And you guys didn’t involve the state Department of Education or --?

ANNETTE HECKART: We did -- You know, I’m trying to think if we -- I feel like we did reach out to them a couple of times.

And I think that we may have done a couple of presentations on that, because Judy was always really good about, um, kind of making sure that we were talking to the right folks.

I feel like -- I’d have to go back and look in my notes. But I feel like we did do a couple of presentations, especially early on in the program with it.

And there was, you know, there was kind of the, "This is great, that’s wonderful, that’s great. We don’t have any money for you. But it’s great." So, like ok.

KAREN BREWSTER: And they weren’t interested in helping promote it, to the teachers in the school districts?

ANNETTE HECKART: Um, did they? No, I don’t believe that they did, and I don’t know that that was a particular ask.

We had -- we had kind of, in promoting it, we worked a lot through, kind of, our alumni. Um, ’cause one of our things was to go deeper into schools, right, so the more teachers that you would have in any given school, then there was more support, um, for each individual educator in that school.

So, you know, we didn’t -- we didn’t just kinda blast out the, you know, call for -- for educators each year. We would -- we would work through our existing alumni and have them kind of help, like, hey, you know, do you have other teachers at your school that you think this would work really well with, or, you know?

And I think that worked really well for the most part. You know, every now and then there were a few folks that signed up that it really wasn’t their thing, and it was ok, but --

KAREN BREWSTER: Well, but for that first year, where you didn’t have those alumni, how did you recruit teachers?

ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah, so we worked through our networks, um, you know, both with the Forest Service and BLM. You know, we've -- we have been doing, you know, in-school programming, and just through our existing connections, um, to kind of really go, "Hey, we’ve got this new program. We think that you would like it. You know, are you interested? And do you think there might be some other educators in your school that are interested?"

And that was really how it -- it went that first year, and like I said, that’s why we were all kind of like, is anybody going to show up? And they did, which was great.

KAREN BREWSTER: Um, and how would you assess its successes?

ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah, I -- You know, I -- I feel like it was very highly successful. Um, and, you know, we see a lot of things that are still going on from schools adopting green spaces next to their school that they’re using for outdoor classrooms that have lived well beyond the original teacher that, you know, helped get it going. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

ANNETTE HECKART: Um, I think that, you know, the Seward example where they helped to, you know, kind of expand this protection for the watershed and salmon in their area.

So it -- it kind of -- I think the effects outlive a lot of the initial folks involved in it, and I think that’s -- I think that’s a wonderful testament to a program.

And -- and it also shows the students that, you know, it’s like, look at what you did. You know, this is -- this is what it’s like to be an active member of society, you know.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. And you said some of the teachers maybe weren’t able to finish their -- the year of being in iTREC! and finish their projects. ANNETTE HECKART: Mm-hm. KAREN BREWSTER: Can you talk about that, and -- and what happened?

ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah, you know, every year for a variety of different reasons, you know, sometimes there’s just personal things or it's just overwhelming with new schools or whatnot, and -- and they weren’t able to finish.

You know, and our -- our goal was to always try to help them finish. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. ANNETTE HECKART: You know, it was in everybody’s best interest to be able to finish it.

And so, we would provide support and the additional resources, if necessary. And some of them took us up on it, and some of them didn’t, you know. I mean, sometimes there’s just -- everybody’s human, and -- KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

ANNETTE HECKART: Sometimes you can only do what you can do at the end of the day.

Um, and, you know, and obviously, there’s a lot of teachers that move on or move out of the district. Um, but our thought was, you know, no matter where they go, um, they still have this background and knowledge, and hopefully it helps influence the way that they teach.

That was one thing that we heard from a lot of different teachers, that it drastically changed their -- their way of teaching in the classroom, um, and I think that is a huge acknowledgement to the program.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. Well, I was going to say, how did you handle the challenges of the high teacher turnover rate? ANNETTE HECKART: Mm-hm. Yeah, and that’s, you know -- KAREN BREWSTER: Especially in the villages.

ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah. That is always a challenge, right. But like I said, we felt -- and we knew that going into it. It’s like, you know, we could potentially train up X number of teachers, and they’re gone the following year.

Um, but we also felt that no matter where they end up, wherever they land, um, they’ve still gained this -- this knowledge, and -- and hopefully this viewpoint of -- of how they’ll teach into the future, so it’s still a win-win.

KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. And so, the support you provided -- You provide support to the teachers throughout the year. ANNETTE HECKART: Mm-hm. KAREN BREWSTER: To help them get the project done? ANNETTE HECKART: Yep. KAREN BREWSTER: And what did that entail?

ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah, so we’ll, we would check in with them. We would do some group check-ins, so from, you know, group conference call or team meetings or whatever it might be.

And then, as they kind of progress -- You know, from the summer, we introduce kind of the outline for how they would put their curriculum together. We’d check in before the fall. And then we’d have the fall meeting.

And after that, we would set up individual times with each of the teachers to go through their drafts of the program, the curriculum that they’re putting together.

We provide feedback on that, ideas. Like, have you thought about this? What about that? Da-da-da. Or, this isn’t really what we were thinking. You know, this isn’t really kind of where we were going with this, and try to help redirect.

And so, and then hopefully by the time spring came around, they have pretty close to a final draft, we would again after that spring workshop provide, kind of some one-on-one time with them to help them finish it up at the end.

And then, of course, we maintained, you know, Facebook groups, email was always an option, you know, phone calls, whatever. Uh, whatever their preferred method of communication was. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. ANNETTE HECKART: We were available.

KAREN BREWSTER: And so they didn’t have to actually have implemented their -- ANNETTE HECKART: They did not. KAREN BREWSTER: -- project that year?

ANNETTE HECKART: No. No. And that was what we stated going into it, you know. We -- we understood, you know, given this whole year to develop it, and -- and the idea would be that they would implement it, then, the next school year.

Some of them, though, were super excited, and they would start implementing pieces of it right away.

KAREN BREWSTER: Right. Cool. What is the motivation, or why did you decide to teach teachers instead of just going straight to kids about the trail and these activities?

ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah. Um, just because, you know, capacity, number one. There’s only an X number of us, you know, at the Forest Service. And at the time, it was even fewer.

Um, and also, you know, we can come in for an hour at a time, but our teachers are with these students, you know, six-plus hours a day, five days a week. They have a much more profound impact than we ever could with ’em.

So -- so, we felt like if we invested in our teachers, we would have a much stronger impact in the classroom and a much better chance of a -- of a good outcome with the programming.

KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. I’m going to pause for a second. ANNETTE HECKART: Sure.

KAREN BREWSTER: So one thing I did want to ask about is that, obviously your job has been more than just iTREC!.

So can you say, you know, how much of your time would iTREC! take up every year compared to everything else you have to do? How did you balance and juggle that?

ANNETTE HECKART: Um, yeah, I would say that iTREC! was probably 20 to 25 percent of my time. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

ANNETTE HECKART: How did I balance and juggle that? That’s a great question. I don’t know if I did it very well.

But I think I’ve always been -- even though I -- I hate it about myself, I’ve always been queen of last minute, so, you know, whenever it’s crunch time, it’s like, all right, we’re a go. We’re -- I'm going to make this happen, so whatever it takes to -- to make it -- make it go is -- is -- Is what we did.

KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. Well, and you don’t come from a background in education, so how did you -- ANNETTE HECKART: Right. KAREN BREWSTER: -- kind of -- ANNETTE HECKART: How did I get into the -- ? KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

ANNETTE HECKART: You know, when I first came to Alaska, I met a really wonderful woman who was with the Forest Service in Cordova, and she was my mentor. She was an environmental education specialist, and interpreter, and um, and -- and she took me under her wing.

And it was like, I want to be like her when I grow up. And so um -- So I was able to kind of, you know, glean a lot of great information from her.

And she helped me along the way and encouraged me. And I think I had a lot -- I think I had a series of good mentors throughout my career that were really, really valuable.

KAREN BREWSTER: And what was her name? ANNETTE HECKART: Uh, Sandy Frost. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. ANNETTE HECKART: Mm-hm. And then Jaime Schmidt was another one. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. ANNETTE HECKART: Yep.

KAREN BREWSTER: And Jaime’s -- is she still working on the trail, or she’s -- ? ANNETTE HECKART: No, Jaime’s retired. Yep, Jaime became our National Trails Program Manager out of Washington, D.C., but she retired a couple years ago now. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

ANNETTE HECKART: And Sandy is retired, as well. KAREN BREWSTER: Yes, I figured Sandy must have been, yeah.

Uh, so um, does -- I mean, Delia, who is not even in Alaska. ANNETTE HECKART: Right. KAREN BREWSTER: How is it that you guys are partnering with her?

ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah, so she was the lead instructor for TTEC, so Trail to Every Classroom. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

ANNETTE HECKART: And um, uh, she’s -- How do I want to say it? She’s her own -- she’s her own entity, her own little company.

But she has been doing place-based education, environmental education, place-based service learning for years, and she travels the world teaching about this.

So Rita was the one that introduced us to her, and -- and, you know, we got to see her teaching all these other educators, and -- and just, you know, how she was able to connect with them, and um, kind of brought all of this life experience to the program.

And she absolutely believes to her core the value of this, and it comes out in her teaching. And we just felt like, yeah, even though she’s not from Alaska, this is -- this is perfect.

You know, we can all bring the Alaskan experience, and she brought kind of that -- that foundational piece of place-based service learning to -- to the program.

KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. So that first year where you were developing the curriculum for the iTREC! workshops. ANNETTE HECKART: Mm-hm.

KAREN BREWSTER: Not for the classrooms. How did you find material? What did you decide to include? ’Cause I understand that the teachers get big binders.

ANNETTE HECKART: They do get big binders. Well, luckily, our friends on the Appalachian Trail had already taken that step to develop, um, kind of a -- I don’t know, it’s not a curriculum, but -- KAREN BREWSTER: Resource? ANNETTE HECKART: You know, a textbook, I guess. A resource book.

Um, and so, we used that. And then over the next couple years, the Trail to Every Classroom, the -- there was also a Forest to Every Classroom program on the East Coast. Uh, there’s a Watershed for Every Classroom.

There’s a whole series of these kind of, like, place-based-focused programs. All came together. We developed a curriculum, or not a curriculum, but a resource book, um, for the program as a whole, for place-based service learning, which then kind of became our foundation, and we just, you know, we’d update it occasionally.

KAREN BREWSTER: And then do you include Alaska-specific content?

ANNETTE HECKART: Mm-hm. Yes, then we would include Alaska examples, content.

We always provided a lot of background on the Iditarod National Historic Trail to the teachers as well, um, through the Alliance.

You know, they had several great publications on it, so we provided all that. And I think we provided the videos, too, to the educators, so they would have those for the classroom.

KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. Um, I’m trying to think of what other things -- other things, um. You have other examples of projects that -- some of your favorite projects that the teachers did?

ANNETTE HECKART: Oh gosh, let me think. After you leave, I’ll be like, "Oh, I should’ve mentioned this." KAREN BREWSTER: Well, I -- Go ahead.

ANNETTE HECKART: Well, I guess I’d just say, you know, it really just kind of runs the gamut. You know, we -- we have some educators that, yeah, you know, for the most part a lot of them had been in the classroom for, you know, many number of years and -- and were already seen as -- as kind of leaders in their profession all the way to kind of maybe some new ones, or some teachers that maybe had kinda stagnated a little bit.

And I remember we had one year that started out, and we had a teacher from the (Mat-Su) Valley, and she was just not looking happy on Day One. And we were all kinda like, "Ooh, I don’t know if she’s gonna last the week."

And -- and by the end of the week, what we discovered was the fact that she wasn’t comfortable going outside. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm.

ANNETTE HECKART: And she -- this whole week was trying to figure out, like, "I don’t want to be out there. How am I going to take my students out there?" KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

ANNETTE HECKART: And at the end of this year, I felt like it was a huge accomplishment because she was -- she was like, "I’m taking my students out three times a week, and here’s what we’ve got, and here’s what we’re doing."

And it was like -- Even though there wasn’t any big, huge project associated with that, it was a huge step for her feeling comfortable, and feeling comfortable taking her students outside, and knowing that they could be outside and learning.

So, you know, I was like, this is a win. This is huge, you know. All the way over to, you know, our other teachers, that were -- In Seward, it was -- it was kindergarten and fifth grade working together on the whole inclusion of Scheffler Creek into the watershed that was protected down there, so it just -- it really runs the gamut.

Which is kinda -- it’s really kind of cool to see, and -- and knowing the individual teachers of really how -- how big that plays out.

But there’ve been a lot of -- a lot of teachers, especially in the Anchorage bowl, working with the Anchorage Park Foundation on establishing outdoor classrooms. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

ANNETTE HECKART: And so there’s a whole series of outdoor classrooms now in Anchorage. And -- and, obviously, that’s a resource not only to the teacher that was in iTREC!, but hopefully to their whole school.

And I do know that the Anchorage Park Foundation has kind of continued to promote and develop resources for teachers to feel comfortable taking their students outside and using those outdoor classrooms, and, you know, here’s what you can do, and here’s -- So it’s, um, yeah.

They -- they really run the gamut from tiny -- what might seem like tiny baby steps but are really big.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. Well, I know teachers are so overwhelmed with what they have to do -- ANNETTE HECKART: Yes. KAREN BREWSTER: -- with their students, and I know from some experience trying to encourage them, "Teach about this, or teach about that." ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: And they just don’t have the capacity to develop their own curriculum. ANNETTE HECKART: Right.

KAREN BREWSTER: So that they -- So what you were giving them, they did have to sort of develop their own curriculum, right?

ANNETTE HECKART: Kind of. It was kind of thinking about what they already have to do in a little bit different way, right?

And -- and so that was -- that was the big message that we tried to hit home is that we’re not asking you to do extra, to add more onto your already full plate, but we’re asking you to look at that plate in maybe a little bit different way, and can you, you know, can -- through some tweaks, can you teach about what you need to teach about in this way, or connect it with this, or can you bring in a partner here?

So it was really, it was really thinking differently to accomplish what they needed to accomplish, but it didn’t all have to take place in the classroom in kind of the way that they’ve been doing.

Now, you know, with that being said, kind of in a perfect world, yay, that works great, but then in reality is that, you know, from when we started iTREC! to now, you know, things have changed quite a bit. Obviously, there was this huge pandemic.

Um, administrators change at schools. Superintendents change. You know, and so, kind of support for the program, you know, would kind of go up and down, and -- and even, you know, time outdoors is --

We heard from a lot of teachers where their school administrator was like, "Nope. Absolutely not. You need -- If you’re not in the classroom, you’re not learning."

So you know, the -- I think the -- the big piece was also trying to educate some of those school administrators. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. ANNETTE HECKART: On the value of -- of a program like this. Of -- of getting kids outdoors to learn and engage in maybe a different way.

But, you know, certainly -- certainly a challenge that still exists.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah, so how would you try to educate them, those administrators, the district?

ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah. I would say our biggest success we had -- we had a principal from the Mat-Su take place -- or join us for a whole year-long session, and so she was a great cheerleader. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

ANNETTE HECKART: With other principals to say, "Hey, I know that this program is really valuable. I went through the program. Here’s this, and I really like --" And she always supported her teachers coming.

Um, and so, we -- we had other ideas to hope to, you know, present to different administrative -- I know they gather several times a year. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. ANNETTE HECKART: And stuff, um.

We weren’t ever able to realize all of those ideas that we had, but um, but we tried our best. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

ANNETTE HECKART: And we were always willing to, you know, if a teacher didn’t feel like they had support, we were there, and able to, you know, "Do you need us to go chat with your principal?" Or, you know, sometimes -- Sometimes it's good, sometimes bad, you never know.

Or offer a letter of support or, you know, any of those things to kind of help -- help educate, um, maybe some of the folks making the decisions that weren’t in the classroom.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. I can’t imagine an administrator saying, "No, the kids can’t be outside." That just seems ridiculous.

ANNETTE HECKART: It seems ridiculous, but there was a fair number of teachers that that was, you know, that was a roadblock for them, that their administrators felt that if they were not in the classroom doing this, you know.

And then some of the guidance too that changed was, you know, this kind of idea that students, no matter where they are, should be doing the same thing on the same day at the same time, and it just took all creativity out of the classroom for the educator.

And, you know, and teachers really felt devalued with that, too, of like, you know, why am I here? KAREN BREWSTER: Right. ANNETTE HECKART: You know, anybody could come here and push the button, and there you go. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. ANNETTE HECKART: Do this worksheet. Do this worksheet, you know, kind of thing. And-- and so, yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: I didn’t realize that that had -- had happened in education systems. ANNETTE HECKART: Mm-hm. KAREN BREWSTER: That everybody was supposed to do the same thing all the time.

ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah, it was kind of this idea that, you know, if students were moving schools, it wouldn’t be that disruptive for them because, generally, if you’re in seventh grade, you know, at this time period, you’re working on this kind of thing.

And if you go to this other school, it’s going to be very similar, you know. But it really takes all of the -- you know -- KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. ANNETTE HECKART: -- creativity and education of the teacher, you know, out of it. It's -- they're just like --

KAREN BREWSTER: And have the school standards for what the teachers are supposed to teach, you know, like in third grade you’re supposed to know A, B, and C. ANNETTE HECKART: Mm-hm. KAREN BREWSTER: And in fifth grade, you’re supposed to know D, E, and F. ANNETTE HECKART: Mm-hm.

KAREN BREWSTER: You know, have those things changed? And therefore affected the iTREC! program and what you guys are emphasizing?

ANNETTE HECKART: You know, I would say some of it, yes, because there was a bigger push, you know, towards reading and math, less about science and social studies at times, so you --

And I will admit, it was eye-opening to me several times, you know, uh, when I heard from teachers, like, you know, "We get 45 minutes a week for science." I’m like, "Wait, what? How? What? How? What?"

So um -- And so, yeah, the big push was reading, especially for elementary.

KAREN BREWSTER: And so, did that -- did those changes affect the core -- cohort who came into iTREC!?

ANNETTE HECKART: It -- it did. I mean, well, I mean, I think we still got -- we still got those teachers that I felt were kind of in this upper part of -- of educators, and --

And, um, but, you know, we saw ’em struggle with like, "How -- how can I implement this? I -- Because I really believe in this, and how do I implement this, but I have all of these strict, you know, kind of standards hemming me in where I don’t have any flexibility whatsoever."

So um, so we tried pretty hard to see how -- You know, and again, like, sometimes I feel like maybe I’m a little Pollyanna, because I’m not in that world, right. I’m coming at it from, you know, a federal agency.

Like sure, why don’t you do this? You know. It’s like, "Oh, right. Maybe you can’t do that? Ok."

KAREN BREWSTER: Well, and I was thinking, too, that the way you mentioned the science, but not all outdoor activities are science-based. ANNETTE HECKART: Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. KAREN BREWSTER: You can do it about art, or you could do it about reading.

ANNETTE HECKART: And that’s -- yeah, absolutely. That’s what we said, you know, like, you can do reading outside, even, you know, from story walks, where you can, you know, you see books on, you know, kind of created -- turned into signs, that, you know, students are hiking along a trail and reading and engaging with the -- their surroundings at the same time.

So, yeah, absolutely, there’s -- You know, that was the -- the cool thing about iTREC! is that it wasn’t just tied to one specific, you know, area of education.

It could really be applied across the board, whether you’re talking about art, music, science, you know.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. And that’s what I was going to say, you know, I always associated it was all about the trail. ANNETTE HECKART: Mm-hm. KAREN BREWSTER: Just ’cause it’s education, and the Iditarod Trail. ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: So it’s interesting to learn that it was this bigger thing.

ANNETTE HECKART: It was bigger, yeah. It -- it was.

And, you know, at times, I think we struggled, too, like gosh, we want to make sure that we’re being true to the Alliance as a partner, and --

And, again, I don’t know if Judy answered this, but I think even raising the awareness of the historic trail with our educators, you know, it -- it -- it reached -- it accomplished a lot of their goals, as well.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. Ok. Um, we keep sort of talking about iTREC! in the -- in the past. ANNETTE HECKART: Mm-hm.

KAREN BREWSTER: Can you talk about COVID and now what iTREC! is or is not?

ANNETTE HECKART: Yes. That’s a really great question. I don’t think we know what it is or is not at the moment.

iTREC! -- or COVID really, um, really did -- like with everything, kind of took the wind out of our sails, because so much of it was this face-to-face interaction with educators, and kinda giving them this protected, safe time to really focus on what they wanted to do, and -- and make them feel empowered and provided with the tools that they needed and the resources they needed to do this.

And then COVID hit. And we did do -- You know, we did do some virtual programming. Um, it wasn’t really the same impact.

I mean, we still had, you know, good response from -- from teachers, and towards the -- The last kind of, you know, virtual program that we did, it really -- it really dropped off. And we were like, huh.

KAREN BREWSTER: So the virtual parts where you had like, Zoom, and those teachers and you guys were all together on Zoom? ANNETTE HECKART: Yes.

KAREN BREWSTER: Or -- or I didn’t know if you, like, had pre-recorded material that you put on a website?

ANNETTE HECKART: Well, we’ve done a couple of different things. So we did do, you know, what -- Let’s see, COVID hit in the middle of one of our cohorts, so we'd had two face-to-face workshops, and then the last one became a virtual workshop.

And that was ok, because they already knew each other, and they’d already kind of formed those bonds. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. ANNETTE HECKART: And -- and that was great.

And then we tried to do -- You know, the next year, we did a series of smaller workshops, just kind of individual ones, so -- and teachers kinda -- the idea was they could kind of put them together, you know, pick and choose and -- and put them together.

It’s hard. Nobody gets to know each other over Zoom, right? KAREN BREWSTER: Right. ANNETTE HECKART: If you don’t already know somebody, it’s like, all right. So um, you know. But it worked ok for what -- what we could do.

And then, well, we’ve also participated in the Anchorage School District’s Summer Academy. And the last couple years, that was a virtual -- Well, virtual option where we had pre-recorded and face-to-face, uh, Zoom meetings with them.

And that was ok, too. But I -- I don’t think it was ever as effective as our -- the long program.

KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. What were some of the things you covered in those pre-recorded sessions?

ANNETTE HECKART: In the pre-recorded ones? Yeah, so we have, you know, from Delia presenting kind of the foundations for place-based service learning. We had Kevin at BLM providing background on the Iditarod Historic Trail.

And um, what were some of the other ones? We had a variety. But, then we did some of just kind of -- I think we did some of the hip-pocket activities.

So just kind of -- we took chunks out of our original iTREC! one that were already recorded, put those together with additional resources, and then combined them with a couple of Zoom meetings as well, to kind of talk about it and walk through this, and -- but -- It was -- it was ok. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. ANNETTE HECKART: It was ok, but --

KAREN BREWSTER: And now, have you gone back to regular formal year-long programming since?

ANNETTE HECKART: We have not. And that’s kind of our next discussion of figuring out what is next for iTREC!.

Um, as you can guess, it’s pretty labor-intensive to pull something like that off. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

ANNETTE HECKART: Um, we’ve also seen a big change, because, um, my understanding is that requirements for educators has changed where, you know, the professional development -- number of professional development credits that they needed has dropped off drastically. Um, and so, interest has also dropped off.

You know, we’re seeing a lot of -- You know, there’s a lot of new teachers. You know, a lot of our teachers with COVID and a lot of other pressures that you’re seeing in the news now, have either retired or moved on to other things. And so, there’s a lot of newer teachers. There’s different requirements of what they need, um, to stay current with their teaching certificates.

And -- and so, we felt like it was time for us to take a solid look at iTREC!. We think that, obviously, the core component of it we still really strongly believe in, but maybe the execution of it needs to look a little bit differently.

So that’s kind of the next step for us is to take a look at that and what -- what should it be or what could it be.

KAREN BREWSTER: And what ideas do you have for the future?

ANNETTE HECKART: It’s a really good question. Um, I -- I'm hopeful that we will be able to get a few of our alumni teachers to join us. To really help us think through some of this, some of these pieces, because, like I said, I’m not a classroom teacher, and I only -- I only know a little snippet of that world from when I look in.

So I think having their input is going to be critical and incredibly valuable for us to develop something that is worthwhile, and that educators want to use and would seek out.

So, but I feel like our kind of foundational pieces are still strong and are still there, we just need to figure out a new way to maybe convey those or give those out to our educators.

KAREN BREWSTER: It’s a little disconcerting that you say that the teachers’ professional development requirements have been reduced.

ANNETTE HECKART: That’s my understanding. And, hopefully, I’m not wrong on that, but -- KAREN BREWSTER: Well, it's -- it’s a little bit disconcerting. ANNETTE HECKART: Yes.

KAREN BREWSTER: Does that mean that our teachers are not as experienced and knowledgeable as they could be? I don’t know. ANNETTE HECKART: I don’t know. Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: That’s a different topic -- ANNETTE HECKART: Yep. KAREN BREWSTER: -- I understand. But, it's wow.

Um, so besides COVID, what are some other challenges that you guys have faced, or -- or roadblocks, obstacles, or whatever? ANNETTE HECKART: Sure. KAREN BREWSTER: Since it started?

ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah, well, you know, challenges are always staffing and capacity, right? Um, I don’t know if Luise shared with you, but she’ll be retiring soon. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

ANNETTE HECKART: And she’s always been kind of one of these strong pillars in the program. Um, my guess is that Judy’ll probably be retiring sometime in the near future, as well. Uh, and, you know -- And certainly there could be other wonderful people that come in, too, to -- to take their place, but um --

So capacity has always been one. You know, we’ve been pretty limited on, you know, the amount of staffing that we have available at any given time.

Um, I think BLM has done a whole lot better. Obviously, they have the Campbell Creek Science Center, and there’s a lot more staff there than we’ve had at the Forest Service here. So staffing’s one.

Just money, too. It’s a pretty expensive program if you’re -- if you're flying teachers around the state.

KAREN BREWSTER: Well, and as you said, it takes a lot of time -- ANNETTE HECKART: Mm-hm. KAREN BREWSTER: -- to get this all up and running. ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: And then following up with the teachers all year and --

ANNETTE HECKART: Yep. Yep. So um, yeah. So I would say those are kind of the big three of just kind of what’s happening in the education world, uh, how we need to adjust to -- to address that, and then our capacity and our funding are kind of those three key pieces that --

KAREN BREWSTER: Well, and you mentioned, you know, with Luise retiring. It definitely seems like you, Judy, and Luise, yeah, you know, you’re the pillars in this foundation, and when you leave positions, is it going to be carried on?

Or is it your guys’ passion project, and the next person -- ANNETTE HECKART: Right. Right. KAREN BREWSTER: -- might not do it? That is this very reliant on the personalities and the people?

ANNETTE HECKART: Right. You know, as much as we always want to say that, you know, if you build something really good, it can continue on, but as we all know, it -- it really is dependent upon the passion of the individual.

And yeah. I don’t know. I -- I would hope that, you know, the partnerships that we’ve created, and just kind of this foundational piece is strong enough to carry it on, but I -- You know, I’ve seen a lot crazier things in my time in the Forest Service, so --

KAREN BREWSTER: Well, um, Luise mentioned the Junior Trailblazer -- ANNETTE HECKART: Yes. KAREN BREWSTER: -- thing. And that sort of come out of the iTREC! program? ANNETTE HECKART: Yes. Yep.

KAREN BREWSTER: Can you talk about that -- ANNETTE HECKART: Sure. KAREN BREWSTER: -- project?

ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah, so um, so the Alliance has always you know, had education as a core component of their -- of their organization, as well.

And Forest Service and BLM have long had the -- the Junior Ranger program. And we felt like, gosh, the Iditarod would make a great kind of Junior Ranger-type program.

So, you know, we just -- I think we even all kind of individually kind of started thinking about this. And BLM might have been a little bit ahead of us, and we were like, "Oh my gosh, we should do a Junior Ranger program based on the Iditarod."

Uh, so we came together and -- and worked on that for -- for quite a while to introduce -- You know, it’s -- it's geared towards elementary, kinda upper elementary, but um, as a way to introduce kids to the Iditarod National Historic Trail.

And -- and, certainly, you know, it’s limited in what it can do. It’s just meant to be a fun introduction and get kids excited and whatnot. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. ANNETTE HECKART: But -- And I think it’s done that well.

KAREN BREWSTER: And so, who’s using it?

ANNETTE HECKART: Who’s using it? Um, I would say, there’s families, there’s teachers. Um, you know, it's -- we have it available at all of our offices, BLM offices, Alaska Public Lands Information Center.

Um, and the Junior Ranger program as a whole has a pretty vast following. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. ANNETTE HECKART: It is amazing how people seek out new Junior Ranger opportunities. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh.

ANNETTE HECKART: You don’t usually even have to advertise them. KAREN BREWSTER: Really. ANNETTE HECKART: And suddenly it’s like, "Hey, I hear you have this." Yes.

You’ll see kids come in. They’re pretty funny. You’ll see them and they'll come in, and they’ll have these vests just covered in badges and patches from the different Junior Ranger programs all over the-- all over the US.

KAREN BREWSTER: Wow. And so, does the Iditarod have a patch they can give them? ANNETTE HECKART: Yes. Yep. We have a patch and a sticker.

KAREN BREWSTER: I know about the sticker, right. And so, have -- you haven’t, uh, sent these booklets out to schools and to teachers to say, "Hey, why don’t you use this in your classroom?"

ANNETTE HECKART: Um, you know, we certainly advertise it on all of our websites and via social media. We did a big push when -- when we first launched it. And so, it went out to the public.

If educators reach out, we certainly do. It’s -- You know, again, it kinda becomes this -- We could easily, you know, send out everything that we’ve got printed, you know, if schools are like, yeah, we need three hundred, you know, kind of thing.

So um, yeah. We -- we generally tend to like advertise those to the general public, and -- and -- But certainly, if educators ask, we can -- we can provide copies.

KAREN BREWSTER: And what year did that come out, do you remember?

ANNETTE HECKART: Oh, I think it was ’22? That’s a really great question. These years all run together now. KAREN BREWSTER: (unintelligible)

ANNETTE HECKART: Um, I think we had it out in ’22. Was it? I think it was in ’22. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. ANNETTE HECKART: I can double check that for you, but yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: The other thing I wanted to ask you, so you being involved in this iTREC! program, what has that meant to you, personally, professionally?

ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah. I would say, um, gosh, what does it mean to me? Yeah, I just feel -- I don’t know, there’s just -- I guess there’s a sense of pride when you -- you can actually see these kids who are very empowered to be a part of something bigger than --

You know, like, I think sometimes we tend to put kids as like, ok, you’re in school. This is what you do, and you know. You listen and you do what you’re told, kind of thing.

And suddenly, they realize that, "Ok, I can be an active member of my community, of, you know, my neighborhood, my school. And what I say is important, you know, and it can be listened to, as well."

Um, and so, I think that’s the biggest part of it is just, you know, creating these informed little citizens that hopefully will continue to grow and -- and --

You know, because -- well, for any federal agency, you want an informed citizenry that can make good decisions. And uh, understand what’s going on around them, and -- and -- and be a part of the problem-solving. So I think that’s the -- the biggest piece there.

KAREN BREWSTER: ’Cause I can tell you’re very passionate about it. And so, where does that passion come from?

ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah, it's -- well, you know, it’s -- it's -- I, yeah, I don’t know. I -- I, obviously, you know, I went to school got a degree in biology.

And I feel like in some ways I kind of happened into this, uh, career path that I -- that I ended up taking, but, yeah, I was just surrounded by folks that were so passionate about this, and it was like, wow, they’re having a great time.

And, you know, the kids are having a great time. And people are learning and having, you know -- Anyway, so it was just -- it just seemed like a win-win. It seemed less like work and more like fun, right? But I guess that's -- I guess that’s what a good job should be, right?

KAREN BREWSTER: Exactly. Um, and I don’t know if you can answer this question or this is for somebody else, but the idea that parts of the trail being on Forest Service lands, particularly the Kenai Peninsula. ANNETTE HECKART: Mm-hm.

KAREN BREWSTER: And what the Forest Service has been doing to map the trail or recognize it, and acknowledge it?

ANNETTE HECKART: Oh gosh, there’s so much happening. I’m probably not the best with all the details of what’s happening there.

But um, yeah, so there’s -- there's been a lot of funding that has come to the Forest Service for kind of, we call ’em connector pieces for the Iditarod, for the southern portion of the Iditarod there.

Um, and certainly, those interpretive elements are -- are part of that. The focus right now tends to be on kind of connecting all of these pieces of the Iditarod to make, uh -- you know, so that people can, say, start in Seward, and get all the way to Crow Pass and -- and beyond.

Um, but the -- but kinda sharing that story is -- is incredibly important. Um, and -- and it -- it’s there. It’s probably not as high a priority right now as connecting the trail is, but -- but it’s definitely there.

KAREN BREWSTER: ’Cause I know in Seward, there’s, you know, at Mile 0 -- ANNETTE HECKART: Mm-hm. KAREN BREWSTER: -- there’s -- there's quite an -- ANNETTE HECKART: Yep. KAREN BREWSTER: -- exhibit there. Um, but any other public education?

ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah, well actually, we did -- and we've -- we've fabricated all these panels. They’re just waiting to be installed. I believe maybe this summer they’ll go in.

But the -- Might be this summer or next summer, I’m not quite sure. Um, Portage Curve? KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. ANNETTE HECKART: The realignment of the Seward Highway there? KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

ANNETTE HECKART: Um, and so, we developed a whole series of signs there that connect with the Iditarod. So those will be going in.

Uh, we do have plans in place for other trailheads along the Seward Highway, too. Not necessarily the funding right now for all that signage.

KAREN BREWSTER: So once again, uh, funding becomes the roadblock? ANNETTE HECKART: Right, yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Or the trailblock? ANNETTE HECKART: Yes, exactly.

KAREN BREWSTER: Um, what about in Girdwood? Does the trail go through --? Well, it goes Crow Pass, but --

ANNETTE HECKART: Yes. Crow Pass. Well, you know, with the Iditarod, and I’m sure Judy and Kevin all talked about this is, the Iditarod isn’t exactly a Point A to Point B trail. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

ANNETTE HECKART: It’s a series of connector trails, so there’s a lot of little kind of spider trails that are considered part of the Iditarod, so --

But yes, Crow Pass and um, over Berry Pass to Twenty-Mile, that is in the plans to -- to connect, but not quite sure when.

KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. Um, what was I just thinking of, that -- Oh yeah, with the southern section, it seems like the beginning the Forest Service was not much of a participant, and so enthusiastic. And folks like Dan Seavey and Lee (Poleske) really advocated hard for that. ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: Would you agree with that?

ANNETTE HECKART: Um, I think so. You know, that was kind of right as I was coming into it. I know that there might have been somewhat of a lackluster response from the Forest Service, but, you know, when Jaime stepped into the role, she really had a passion for this trail and for working with the Alliance and other partners to really elevate this.

I think, you know, she saw the importance of the trail and the importance of the Forest Service kind of really grabbing on to that and -- and running with it.

And um, and so she did a lot to elevate the status and importance of the Iditarod on National Forest System lands.

KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. That -- that was -- because I was wondering, yeah, how -- Why did -- why did it change, when did it change, how did it change? ANNETTE HECKART: Mm-hm. Yep. Yep.

KAREN BREWSTER: 'Cause it does seem now that they’re very active -- ANNETTE HECKART: Mm-hm. KAREN BREWSTER: -- in their portion. ANNETTE HECKART: Yep. Yep.

KAREN BREWSTER: And, do you know about when Jaime started? ANNETTE HECKART: I -- Gosh, I don’t. I want -- Holy cow. It was probably -- Hmmm.

KAREN BREWSTER: She was already here when you started? Or she came after? ANNETTE HECKART: She came after. But, oh gosh. Maybe 2007? KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, that late. ANNETTE HECKART: I might be -- KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. ANNETTE HECKART: I might be -- KAREN BREWSTER: Well, that’s close. ANNETTE HECKART: -- just grasping at straws there, but 2000's-ish.

KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. Uh, and I -- I guess the other thing is, you know, I’d say, someday you’ll retire. ANNETTE HECKART: Mm-hm.

KAREN BREWSTER: And um, what would you like to be remembered for your contributions to iTREC! and the trail?

ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah, huh? Um, hm. I don’t know if it’s so much me. It’s, uh -- Again, I kinda -- I always kinda picture myself as just kinda the behind the scenes, you know, running the levers or pulling the strings.

So hopefully that I’ve empowered others to go forth and do great things. Um, yeah, I --

KAREN BREWSTER: Or maybe that -- that it keeps going after you’re gone?

ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah, I think that it keeps going in some fashion, and -- and I hope that it continues to grow and evolve.

I think that for any of the programs that I’m involved in, I always tell people, like, I hope it doesn’t look the same way it does now in five years. It should -- it should continue to change and respond to the needs of the public, kind of thing, so, but yeah, I think if it’s still around in some form or fashion, that that would be wonderful. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. ANNETTE HECKART: Yep.

KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. Any other things that you want to tell me about it that I have not remembered to ask?

ANNETTE HECKART: Gosh, no. I think you asked some good questions. KAREN BREWSTER: Covered it? ANNETTE HECKART: Covered it all, yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. Any other -- Uh, you mentioned the mentors, and you mentioned Sandy. Was there another one? ANNETTE HECKART: Jaime. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, those two? ANNETTE HECKART: Mm-hm. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok, that’s right. ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: And any other Forest Service people who've been involved in either iTREC! or the -- the trail over the years that have played key roles? ANNETTE HECKART: Um. KAREN BREWSTER: Besides the ones you’ve already mentioned?

ANNETTE HECKART: Hm. There’s Jaime. I mean, the -- I could just kind of go through. There’s Karen Kromrey.

KAREN BREWSTER: How do you spell that? ANNETTE HECKART: Uh, Karen with K. And then Kromrey, K-R-O-M-R-E-Y. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. ANNETTE HECKART: And she’s retired now, too.

KAREN BREWSTER: And what -- she was -- what was her role?

ANNETTE HECKART: Um, she was uh, the -- Oh gosh, what was her actual title here? I believe she was in charge of trails and -- this is not her official title. KAREN BREWSTER: No, that’s ok. ANNETTE HECKART: Trails and budget. Um, here I’ll look for it.

KAREN BREWSTER: She was for the Forest Service? ANNETTE HECKART: Yes, with the Forest Service. Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

ANNETTE HECKART: Mm-hm. And -- and there was, uh, Paul Clark. He’s with Park Service now. And he had the same role as Karen. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: So they were sort of upper administrative people?

ANNETTE HECKART: Yeah, so they’re my kind of counterpart, but they’re over on the trails and -- and budget side of things. So um, they oversee that program forest-wide.

KAREN BREWSTER: And -- and so Paul was with -- with Forest Service? ANNETTE HECKART: Mm-hm. Yep. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

ANNETTE HECKART: Yep. Um, and, you know, now, there’s Jesse Labenski, who’s currently in that position.

And um, oh gosh, Will. Who I’ve just forgotten his last name now, is in -- he moved into a forest-level, just strictly trails position.

Um, this is awful, but I’ve just forgotten his name. I was just talking about this. I can miraculously forget things in mid-sentence now. Um, yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: But yeah, you're -- the Forest Service’s role has really been in the Anchorage to Seward -- ANNETTE HECKART: Mm-hm. KAREN BREWSTER: -- section? You’ve had probably not much to do with out to Nome and --?

ANNETTE HECKART: No, ’cause that would all be BLM and the state. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

ANNETTE HECKART: So, and Kevin -- As long as I’ve been in this position, Kevin has been in his position at -- at BLM. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. ANNETTE HECKART: As a trail administrator for the state -- statewide.

KAREN BREWSTER: Right. So you -- you had some connection with teachers in some of those communities along the trail?

ANNETTE HECKART: Um, well, that was -- BLM really had those connections in the northern part of the trail. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. ANNETTE HECKART: Because they worked with those communities and those educators, so --

And I focused more on, you know, Southcentral here. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. ANNETTE HECKART: Kind of the Seward to Anchorage, Mat-Su area.

KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. Anything else you care to share about your experiences all of these years?

ANNETTE HECKART: I -- No, I've -- it's just -- it -- I think it’s been -- it’s been phenomenal to be a part of this whole program, and I’m excited to see where it goes next, in whatever fashion.

KAREN BREWSTER: Good luck with that future planning. ANNETTE HECKART: Thank you. Thank you. KAREN BREWSTER: All right, thank you.