KAREN BREWSTER: This is Karen Brewster, and today is May 6, 2024, and I’m here in Eagle River, Alaska, outside of Anchorage, with Nolan Heath. And we’re talking today about the Iditarod National Historic Trail.

And um, so before we get into the trail stuff itself, I just wanted to kinda get some background on you so people know a little bit about you. I mean, you worked for BLM (Bureau of Land Management), but get us to, uh, you know, where and when you were born, coming to Alaska, that kind of stuff.

NOLAN HEATH: Oh, my gosh. KAREN BREWSTER: It can be brief.

NOLAN HEATH: So, I was born in Wyoming, and uh, in a little town called Worland. Worland, Wyoming. And was raised there. Have seven brothers and sisters, you know. KAREN BREWSTER: Wow.

NOLAN HEATH: Um, farming community. Grew up, you know, all about farming and that. Then I went in -- when I graduated from high school, I went into the military. Served -- was a veteran of the Vietnam War. Spent my time over in Germany.

Um, when I left the military, I came home and served a mission for my church in California. Spent two years there in California, and then I came back and started attending the University of -- Brigham Young University in Utah (BYU). Um, and pursuing a degree in mechanical engineering. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: Um, I was asked if I would drive a girl up to Alaska at the end of my first semester there. And I had a job waiting for me in Michigan with a friend of mine from the military, and uh, he said -- when I called him and said, "This crazy girl wants me to drive her up to Alaska."

He said, "You should go. Uh, I was up there TDY (temporary duty travel) once, it’s a great place. Go have some fun. You’ve never done anything wild and crazy in your life. Come on back when you’re done."

So I told her I would. So I loaded her up in my car and drove her up to Alaska and dropped her off at her sister’s house. And went down to the gas station, filled up my car with gas, and pulled out my last ten dollars. Put it in the -- paid for the gas.

I had no place to stay, no job, no money. That was my start in Alaska.

KAREN BREWSTER: And what year was that? NOLAN HEATH: That was in 1979. May of 1979. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

NOLAN HEATH: And so I went to church the next day, and a captain in the Air Force, Skip Gidrel (sp?), said, "Hey, I’ve got an extra bedroom. Come crash with me until you get a job." And he helped me. That’s my start in Alaska. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

NOLAN HEATH: A couple of days later I had a job working for a local welding company. And uh -- ’cause that’s what I did in the military was welding. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

NOLAN HEATH: And so, I worked for them for a few summers, going to school. I met my wife up here that summer. We got married that next fall down at BYU. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: Down there, in Salt Lake there. And I pursued my education, wound up with a master’s degree in mechanical engineering.

KAREN BREWSTER: From BYU, or you were doing it --? NOLAN HEATH: From BYU. KAREN BREWSTER: So you went back to Utah for a while to finish the degree? NOLAN HEATH: I went back every year to school at BYU.

KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, so you just worked here in the summers? NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. NOLAN HEATH: Yeah, I worked up here in the summer time. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

NOLAN HEATH: A couple of summers I stayed down there where I worked through the summer and went to summer school. One summer I was down in Phoenix, Arizona with Garrett Turbine (Garrett Turbine Engine Company) working on my master’s thesis.

Um, and then when I graduated, I got a job on -- at Elmendorf (Elmendorf Air Force Base in Anchorage, Alaska). KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: As a mechanical engineer on base there. And did several projects there for, uh, about three years.

And several of those projects were related to natural gas, putting in natural gas into their barracks and buildings and stuff. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, ok.

NOLAN HEATH: And I converted their power plant to natural gas. And then a friend of mine worked for ENSTAR (ENSTAR Natural Gas Company in Anchorage, Alaska). He invited me to apply for a job there. And so I applied, and they hired me, and I worked for two years with ENSTAR.

KAREN BREWSTER: Which is the local utility, or is it just gas? NOLAN HEATH: Local gas utility. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

NOLAN HEATH: And then another friend of mine invited me to apply for a job with the pipeline office. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. NOLAN HEATH: With BLM. They were looking for a gas engineer to head up the gas pipeline project.

So I applied for that and was hired there, and then that project, they decided not to pursue that, and so they switched me over to the oil side. And I worked as an engineer with the Trans-Alaska Pipeline System, and uh --

KAREN BREWSTER: I was going to say, so the pipeline was already built. You -- NOLAN HEATH: Yes. KAREN BREWSTER: -- you were helping manage it? NOLAN HEATH: Yeah, the right of way. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

NOLAN HEATH: And working with the right of way project. Um, then, my boss moved on, and I applied for his job and became the Pipeline Officer, Right of Way Officer.

KAREN BREWSTER: So that was like head of the office there?

NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. It was a joint office with the state, so there was like five federal agencies and about eight state agencies that all had employees that worked together there in that office.

And so, we coordinated. There was a state lead, and I was the federal lead. And we would -- KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. NOLAN HEATH: -- coordinate the oversight and compliance with the terms and conditions of the right of way.

Um, then after about four years there, I had mentioned to my boss at the state office, BLM state office, that I was interested in learning more about BLM. And the next day he invited me up to the state director’s office, and we switched places.

And I become Deputy State Director for Minerals, and uh, he became the Pipeline Officer.

And uh, shortly thereafter, they -- the U.S. had a buy-out program for people if they’d retire, they’d give them twenty-five grand. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: And so, the Deputy for Resources retired, and the state director combined minerals and resource divisions, and so I became the DSD (Deputy State Director) of all of the mineral and resource programs in --

KAREN BREWSTER: The -- what -- you just used an acronym that I don’t know. NOLAN HEATH: Uh. KAREN BREWSTER: DSD, is that what you just said? NOLAN HEATH: Deputy State Director. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. NOLAN HEATH: I’m sorry.

KAREN BREWSTER: That’s ok. As long as we say it once, then you can keep doing it. I’m sure it’s just part of your vocabulary. NOLAN HEATH: Yeah, it is. And yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: So, now at least, the DSD. So we’ll know when you say it, what that is. NOLAN HEATH: Yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: So the pipeline -- when you were the Pipeline Officer and worked for the Pipeline Office, that -- was that a BLM position? NOLAN HEATH: Yes.

KAREN BREWSTER: Ok, and what year was -- did that start? NOLAN HEATH: That was from about -- from 1990 to ’94. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

NOLAN HEATH: And then in ’94 I transitioned over to Deputy State Director of Minerals. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

NOLAN HEATH: And a year later, they combined it with Resources. And uh, a year or so later, I can’t remember exactly, they closed down the Bureau of Mines. And in Alaska they transferred those employees to BLM. And so, the state director had me incorporate them into the Minerals and Resource Program. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. Right.

NOLAN HEATH: So I had those folks. Which included an office down in Juneau, and uh -- But, so that -- that was basically the start of my career in the resources side of BLM.

KAREN BREWSTER: Right. And so, it was around 1996 or so, you became the DSD? NOLAN HEATH: ’94. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh. Well, oh, I see.

NOLAN HEATH: Yeah, and then I was Deputy State Director of Minerals. And then, in ’95 or so, I was combined with the resources and land side. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. NOLAN HEATH: And uh.

KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. And you were in that position until you retired from BLM? NOLAN HEATH: No, I was in that position for about ten years. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

NOLAN HEATH: And then they asked me to go back to the Pipeline Office to help them with -- Alyeska (Alyeska Pipeline Service Company) was rebuilding their pump stations, and they asked me to go back and help with that project because of my engineering background. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: So I transitioned back to the Pipeline Office and was there for about 15 years. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

NOLAN HEATH: Uh. And then, the last year and a half or so, I went back to the Resources Division before I retired.

KAREN BREWSTER: And when did you retire? NOLAN HEATH: In 2019. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

NOLAN HEATH: January of 2019. And so, with my military time and my time on base and all that, I had about 34 years in with -- KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. NOLAN HEATH: The federal government. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. NOLAN HEATH: So.

KAREN BREWSTER: And um, yeah, I didn’t realize that there was that Joint Pipeline Office. I thought there was a Joint Pipeline Office when the pipeline was being built. NOLAN HEATH: There was. Um, it wasn’t structured quite the same as it was when I was there. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: Um, ’cause after it was built, the Joint Pipeline Office sort of dissolved a little bit, but then they reconstituted it.

And um, made it -- really integrated it more, working on the specific terms and conditions of the right of way. Which the state and the federal right of ways pretty much mirror each other.

KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. And that’s like so much on each side of the pipeline? Or the road, maybe the Haul Road, too?

NOLAN HEATH: Well, the Haul Road was initially permitted by BLM, but was always envisioned and planned to be turned over to the state. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. NOLAN HEATH: It was built by Alyeska. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. NOLAN HEATH: You know.

KAREN BREWSTER: And it was initially not a public road, but then eventually -- NOLAN HEATH: Right. KAREN BREWSTER: -- it has become one.

NOLAN HEATH: It was always intended to become a public road. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

NOLAN HEATH: But initially, it was just for the purposes of building the pipeline.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. Well once -- I mean, once something like the pipeline is put in, what is there to manage in terms of terms and conditions? You sort of think, there -- it’s there and -- NOLAN HEATH: Well, there’s --

KAREN BREWSTER: I mean, getting the permits to get it built was a whole complicated thing.

NOLAN HEATH: Yes, and -- and restoring the -- the surface, you know, and then maintaining that. You know, there’s brushing requirements. There’s wildlife management requirements along there.

There’s access requirements for maintenance along the right of way, ’cause, you know, part of it was above ground, part below ground. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

NOLAN HEATH: And so, there's a lot of maintenance issues along the line.

And then, you know, as the years go on, they detected corrosion. And so, that became a big issue, and there was a lot of work to figure out why it was corroding and to resolve that.

And then they had a lot of projects to dig up corroded areas and inspect ’em and repair ’em if they needed to be, and that kind of thing. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: And so, and all of those projects needed to be permitted specifically, because they would require additional area. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. NOLAN HEATH: Outside the right of way. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. NOLAN HEATH: And uh --

KAREN BREWSTER: And an EIS (Environmental Impact Statement) environmental review had to happen if they have to dig something up?

NOLAN HEATH: Well, for the first thirty years of the right of way, they were exempted from any NEPA (National Environmental Policy Act). KAREN BREWSTER: Hm.

NOLAN HEATH: Congress had said the initial NEPA was sufficient. But when they renewed the right of way, Congress didn’t carry that forward, so they did need to start doing the NEPA documents after that.

And so, we would do all those documents, too, for all of their projects. So --

KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. Yeah, and I say, I always think, "Oh, it’s just all Alyeska does that." But I don’t think about that it’s not really their land. They don’t -- only own the pipeline.

NOLAN HEATH: Yeah, they own the pipeline, and they own the right to maintain that pipeline within that right of way. So --

KAREN BREWSTER: Is that standard for pipelines? NOLAN HEATH: Oh, yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah? NOLAN HEATH: Yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: That they don’t own the land? NOLAN HEATH: Right. Right.

That’s true with all utilities and, you know, they -- they don’t own the land. I mean, well, they -- they own some land, like the terminal. They bought the land for the terminal. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm. In Valdez.

NOLAN HEATH: You know, places like that, they’ll -- they'll -- but even like the pump stations, a lot of that is just, um, use permits. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm. NOLAN HEATH: It’s not -- they don’t own the underlying land.

KAREN BREWSTER: Right. Ok. Interesting. And so, um, in your job as DSD, is that when sort of the Iditarod Trail came into your purview? NOLAN HEATH: That’s right. That’s right.

KAREN BREWSTER: Can you explain that? NOLAN HEATH: So as Deputy State Director, you’re over all the whole state. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: In terms of the resource and minerals programs, and you rely on your district, um, people, managers and -- and specialists to, you know, plan and carry out the details of the -- the work.

But, you know, as a deputy you do a lot of coordination with Washington (D.C.) and development of funding to carry out the work that’s needed. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: Um, and so, working with the Anchorage manager, which had the responsibility for the Iditarod Trail system, um -- and Mike Zaidlicz was the trail coordinator at that time.

And, basically, there was a -- you know, an agreement, because the Iditarod Trail system, you know, the majority of the land was probably state land. There was some Native land. There was private lands. There was Forest Service lands. Um, you know, so there was a variety of ownerships. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: And um, so there was a committee formed and a plan laid out to, uh, manage the whole trail system.

And uh, it was -- it was unique in that it also allowed for motorized vehicle use on the trail. Um, which is why they can conduct, like the Iron Dog races (snowmobile race that follows the Iditarod Trail). KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: And stuff like that.

Um, and I’m not sure if there’s a limitation on the size of vehicles or whatever. KAREN BREWSTER: The weight of vehicles? NOLAN HEATH: Which there is on a lot of the trails and systems that the Bureau has. They have weight limits. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. NOLAN HEATH: And stuff, so. I suspect there is on it, but I don’t remember. I can’t --

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. But you’re right, it would make sense. I mean, I know in Fairbanks area, the trails they have seasonal limits and now with those big side-by-sides. NOLAN HEATH: Right. KAREN BREWSTER: It’s -- it's changing all the permitting and stuff.

NOLAN HEATH: Yeah, ’cause a side-by-side, they’re almost like -- KAREN BREWSTER: -- car -- They’re like little cars. NOLAN HEATH: -- regular four-wheel-drive. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah, that’s what I think. NOLAN HEATH: They’re almost commercial vehicles. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. Yeah. NOLAN HEATH: And they’re as expensive as.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yes, exactly. Um, yeah, so when you got involved with the trail (Iditarod National Historic Trail), it had already received its historic designation? NOLAN HEATH: Yes. Yes.

KAREN BREWSTER: And -- and, do you know why BLM was put in charge of the management? And it happened before you got there, but do you know that background?

NOLAN HEATH: Yeah, I, um -- Of course, Interior (U.S. Department of the Interior), the Bureau of Outdoor -- KAREN BREWSTER: Recreation? NOLAN HEATH: -- Recreation or something, it was at that time, did the big study in ’77, I think it was. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

NOLAN HEATH: That proposed the designation to Congress. And that was allowed due to a modification of the Historic Scenic Trails law, actually. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: To allow -- to incorporate Historic -- KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

NOLAN HEATH: -- Trails, too. And so, those become a historic trail designation.

And uh, at the time, you know BLM is -- BLM is the U.S. government’s agency that disposes of federal lands. And so, the majority of the lands were technically still under BLM management even though they were selected by state and Native corporations. And so, the process of transferring those was still occurring. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, ok.

NOLAN HEATH: And uh, so having BLM over all of that, I think, was the major reason for having BLM be the lead -- KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. NOLAN HEATH: -- agency with that for the federal government.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah, it’s sort of like, federal lands, if they’re not Park -- if they’re not specifically designated as Park Service or Forest Service, sort of, they’re generic BLM? NOLAN HEATH: Or Fish & Wildlife Service. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah, yeah.

NOLAN HEATH: Those are the four big agencies in the federal government -- KAREN BREWSTER: Right, it sort of seems like BLM kind of is the -- NOLAN HEATH: -- that manage land. KAREN BREWSTER: -- catch-all for those miscellaneous federal lands? NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. NOLAN HEATH: Yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: Um, so you said that Mike was the trail coordinator. Who was the Anchorage manager at the time? Do you remember?

NOLAN HEATH: Um, I can get it for you. I’m trying to think of his name. Um, (tapping on table) I have his name down in the other room.

KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. Because Mike would’ve reported to the --? NOLAN HEATH: To him. KAREN BREWSTER: To him. And then -- NOLAN HEATH: I would’ve coordinated with him. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. And I talked to Mike several times directly, too, about, you know, of --

One of the big concerns when I was there was actually trying to get protections on the lands that had already been conveyed to the state or the Native corporations to, um, protect the trail right of way itself. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: Uh, from being built on or done -- you know, something done with. Um, and so that was a big part of the -- the planning part at that time was trying to identify and work with these particular agencies to establish designations.

Of course, some of the areas already had been built over, roads or whatever had been built. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: Over them and so then --

Um, another big effort was, of course, trying to interpret and make people aware of what the values were that we were trying to maintain the system for. And uh --

KAREN BREWSTER: So, some education?

NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. Education component. And putting up -- you know, where do you put up displays? When do you -- you know, how do you -- how do you make the public aware of these values and that?

And then -- and then, that was all being kinda overshadowed by the Iditarod Race (Iditarod Trail Sled Dog Race) itself. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: Which is, of course, the big event, the international event that’s drawn so much attention to this system.

Um, and then, you know, there was the primary route, and then there were a lot of side trails and stuff. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: That uh, were used mostly by local Natives and miners in the -- in the local areas. So, going between villages and towns and mining camps and districts. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: For a lot of those side trails, that was what those were for, so --

KAREN BREWSTER: And those side trails, are they incorporated into the Iditarod Trail designation? NOLAN HEATH: System. Yes. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

NOLAN HEATH: Yes. They are, um, I’m not sure that all of the land owners totally like or agree with all of that, even today. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

NOLAN HEATH: I don’t know, since I’ve left, how much headway they’ve made with that, but uh -- But, you know, they -- but they are historic routes. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. NOLAN HEATH: And trails that were used back in those days, and, you know, I think it’s -- it's good that they are recognized and noted and protected as much as we can.

KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. Now, if it crosses private land and there’s a trail easement that somebody could put in, or --?

NOLAN HEATH: Well, if the private land owner would, uh, allow one to be established, you know, and there could be some legal agreement put in place to protect that. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: You know, that’s what we would strive to accomplish through that committee. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: Working with those and, you know. It’s just like -- it would be just like any resource development company, like an oil and gas company or a coal company or anybody else that’s going on private land. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: You know, can we use this for this purpose? And this is what we’ll pay you, or what, you know, this is what the agreement’ll be for your compensation for us using this part of your land.

KAREN BREWSTER: So BLM had funding to -- for --?

NOLAN HEATH: Well, we -- we continually seek funding for that. And, you know, I mean, Congress does have its limitations in how much it -- KAREN BREWSTER: Right. NOLAN HEATH: -- allots year by year.

But uh -- uh, the idea is -- is to identify things, specific projects that you can budget out, and then submit requests to Congress for funding for those.

Um, the state agencies would do the same on the state side for -- with their state agencies. The Park -- I don’t know that the Park Service has any specific lands on the Iditarod Trail system, but the Fish & Wildlife Service does. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh. NOLAN HEATH: And so they would. And the Forest --

KAREN BREWSTER: The Forest Service does on the southern end. The Chugach.

NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. And they’ve -- they've been actively pursuing, you know, really -- KAREN BREWSTER: Right, that’s -- NOLAN HEATH: -- identifying and marking and -- and protecting the trail. And, you know, interpreting it for the public use and stuff, so --

KAREN BREWSTER: So when you were with BLM, the Deputy State Director, what kind of projects were being worked on related to the trail? ’Cause you said you’d identify projects and then seek the funding.

NOLAN HEATH: Yeah, a lot of -- a lot of them when I was there were related to the race. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, really? NOLAN HEATH: The Iditarod Race, yeah.

And so, the cabins along the trail that facilitated and helped with the race were big projects that were funded to maintain and build those cabins.

Um, marking of the trails. You know, getting funding to mark the trails.

And then establishing the legal documents to protect the -- the right of way itself. Those were the big projects that we were working on.

KAREN BREWSTER: Well, yeah, I was wondering if -- so it’s designated a national historic trail, but it doesn’t have a protected right of way? NOLAN HEATH: No.

KAREN BREWSTER: How does that work? So, it was designated a trail on a map? NOLAN HEATH: Because some of it was already conveyed to -- you know, it wasn’t in federal ownership. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

NOLAN HEATH: You know, that that hadn’t been conveyed, that’s where our Conveyance Division would come in. When they would convey the lands, they would specifically put into the legal document a protection for that. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, ok.

NOLAN HEATH: In the conveyance documents. And so, that’s where Wayne Bowden (sp?) and Ramona Chinn and those folks would come in. In terms of, you know, being able to identify that right of way in the transfer documents so that it’s a protected right there. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

NOLAN HEATH: But being able to get the agencies or the private owners who already had those lands, um, to, you know, agree to have that right of way and protect it. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: You know, that’s, you just work on that. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. NOLAN HEATH: You know, through the years.

KAREN BREWSTER: So even though the trail was -- was really already there before they claimed the land. NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: That didn’t protect the trail?

NOLAN HEATH: Not -- yeah. Not necessarily. Yeah. You know, the Natives, they used different routes over the years, and, you know, um, as things changed, I’m sure they changed routes -- KAREN BREWSTER: Right. NOLAN HEATH: -- here and there, but, you know --

And then -- but some of those areas were improved along there, you know, to be maintained more actively. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: And so those, you know, are a little easier to establish those legal documents for. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: And be able to do it, but --

KAREN BREWSTER: And so, when you came on, the -- the -- the trail had already been surveyed, and so people kinda knew where that route was? ’Cause you needed that for the designation, probably.

NOLAN HEATH: Yeah, I mean, they -- they had in the designation, you know, they would -- they had lines drawn on maps to show where the trail was.

Uh, I don’t know if there was an actual legal description, you know, surveyed description of that. Uh, that’s part of what they would work on as they developed the plans.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah, and now that I think about it, I think that maybe came afterwards. NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. A lot of that does come afterwards. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

NOLAN HEATH: I think it was true to things like the Lewis and Clark and the Appalachian Trail system. You know, those all had a lot of development along, you know, and they had to come in afterwards and, you know, establish that, too, I think. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: So. KAREN BREWSTER: Well, and --

NOLAN HEATH: It’s -- it's not unusual. I mean, that’s typically how it is.

KAREN BREWSTER: Right. And as you say, especially in the Anchorage area, you know, the trail was built over. There was highways, and so, you kinda have to make a new route somehow. Connect the two pieces.

NOLAN HEATH: Yeah, I mean, yeah. And it’s the same with, like, designation of parklands or Fish & Wildlife Service lands. I mean, a lot of times there’s inholdings in those. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm.

NOLAN HEATH: And you have to work with those inholding people, you know, to eventually -- you know, once you've cleared -- or buy ’em out outright, you know. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. NOLAN HEATH: They’ve done that, too. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

NOLAN HEATH: But, you know -- so over time, you perfect that land status and use. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: And that’s -- that's what the -- the plan and the committee’s all about is to do that. Is to help perfect that process and that right of way system.

And uh, interpret it, mark it, designate it. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: You know, that kind of thing.

KAREN BREWSTER: And how well or not well did that work, coordinating with all those different entities?

NOLAN HEATH: Well, it’s always a -- an up and down as personalities come and go, and different people work on it, and different people have -- see opportunities to advance different pieces of it.

But I think overall, it works really well. I mean, I -- I -- you know, you got people working together. They all sort of have the same goal. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: Or understand, at least, what Congress’ intention was. And work toward it as best they can. Um, you know, and I don’t -- I don't know all of the roadblocks or details of all of those pieces.

You know, it’s a -- it's the longest trail system in the United States still, I think. KAREN BREWSTER: Is it? NOLAN HEATH: It may -- the Lewis and Clark might be longer now that -- I think --

KAREN BREWSTER: It’s longer than the Appalachian or the Pacific Crest (trails)? But they’re not designated -- NOLAN HEATH: They’re scenic trails. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. NOLAN HEATH: They’re not historic trails. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

NOLAN HEATH: It’s the longest historic trail. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. NOLAN HEATH: I know that. Uh, but I don’t know if it’s the longest trail system itself. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. Anyway, it’s long.

NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, it’s a -- it's an awesome project to be a part of and kinda wrap your head around all the history that goes in behind it. And, you know, it’s amazing.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. So what were -- is there anything you can think of that you consider successes during your time at BLM related to the trail?

NOLAN HEATH: Uh, yeah. I think one of the biggest ones was -- for me was seeing the Park -- or seeing the Forest Service really -- while I was there they began -- that’s when they began to really initiate designating and improving sections of the trail system. So that -- that was a big part of it.

Marking the trails. There was a lot of areas that we were able to get marked with tripods and flags and things along the trail, which really helped and facilitated the race system. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: And I think that was a big motivator behind that part of it.

And, you know, the cabins along the trail. I saw a couple of those built and a couple of them kinda refurbished and improved on. So that was -- You know, it was always fun to be a part of those projects. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: You know, ’cause being a mechanical engineer, I’m a visual person, and I -- I could see something. You know, you can touch and feel it. It had dimension. It had --

KAREN BREWSTER: Right. You see the cabin go up? NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

NOLAN HEATH: Or, you know, somebody signs a piece of paper that says, this is your right of way. You know, you don’t -- you don't see that as visually as you do a -- a cabin. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

NOLAN HEATH: Or markers on the trail or, you know, interpretive signage or things like that. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. NOLAN HEATH: So.

KAREN BREWSTER: Well, I find it interesting that you guys were marking the trail, because I mean, the Iditarod (race) started in 1973, so it had been going for twenty-some years. NOLAN HEATH: Yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: And wasn’t the trail marked?

NOLAN HEATH: Well, they -- yeah, they do mark trails for that, too. And uh -- But then, you know, there’s always improvements in that.

You know, and the -- You know, the markers back at the beginning weren’t as good as they -- you know, they were perfecting better.

KAREN BREWSTER: So you upgraded from a blaze on the side of a tree to tripods? NOLAN HEATH: Tripods, and, you know, and flag markers. You know.

KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. Well, and certainly out on the sea -- the sea ice sections or those northern sections where there are no trees, a tripod is much better.

NOLAN HEATH: Yeah, and -- and there’s -- you know, then there’s the maintenance of all of that, you know, and -- ’cause the weather is extreme in some of those areas. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: And, of course, across the Norton Sound, you have to put ’em up every year. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. NOLAN HEATH: You know, after the ice freezes over.

You know, so there’s -- there's, you know, a lot to that. And I don’t know that people really realize how much effort goes into it and how many volunteers are -- you know, need to be honored and thanked for all their service that they’ve done for that.

KAREN BREWSTER: Do you have some in mind? NOLAN HEATH: Uh, yeah, I don’t know -- KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. NOLAN HEATH: -- names of all those people, but I know, in all those villages along the road, there are people that helped out with all of that.

People with snowmachines that would pack down the trail and put up the markers.

People from the villages that would house people that come along on -- along the trail, whether it’s the races -- racers or the workers that assisted the racers. Um, you know, all of that is key to -- KAREN BREWSTER: Well, it’s certain -- NOLAN HEATH: -- the history and the preservation of that system.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. Well, it certainly seemed like the -- the Iditarod Sled Dog Race seems to be the biggest user of the trail. NOLAN HEATH: Sure.

KAREN BREWSTER: And all the people involved in making that race happen, like setting the trail with snowmachines and the checkpoints in the villages and all that.

Um, were there people in the villages who helped with the BLM projects?

NOLAN HEATH: Uh, yeah, we tried to get volunteers from the villages, you know, to help with those projects.

And, you know, it would provide them with a lot of times summer employment or in the winter time, running their snowmachines out to mark the -- put out the tripods and stuff, you know.

Uh, and we had field people in Nome, as well as in Anchorage that, you know, kinda worked it from both ends. You know, to coordinate that -- those activities. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

NOLAN HEATH: And, you know, towards the end of my tenure there as Deputy State Director is when they started things like the Iron Dog and the bicycle race. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, right, the --

NOLAN HEATH: Iditarace or the -- KAREN BREWSTER: Well, yeah, it started out as the Iditaski and --

NOLAN HEATH: Iditaski and Iditabike or something. KAREN BREWSTER: Right, Iditabike. And now it’s the -- it has another name. NOLAN HEATH: They still do the bike. The -- the -- KAREN BREWSTER: They still do it, but it has a different name, though.

NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. Yeah. And I don’t think they go all the way to Nome. KAREN BREWSTER: Some people do. NOLAN HEATH: Boy, that’s a long way to go. KAREN BREWSTER: This year, I know there were two people who bicycled all the way to Nome. NOLAN HEATH: Oh, wow.

KAREN BREWSTER: With those fat-tire bikes. NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. Yeah. That’s a -- that's challenge. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah, a lot of people end in McGrath. NOLAN HEATH: Yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: Well, and again, they're taking advantage of a packed down, maintained, marked trail. NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. Yeah. Well, otherwise, I don't -- you know, I don’t know if they’d make it.

KAREN BREWSTER: Well -- That’s what I -- well, that was one of the things I was gonna ask is, you know, we all associate the trail with the dog race, and what -- who else is using it?

NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. Well, originally it was the miners and the Natives. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. NOLAN HEATH: You know, Natives for subsistence and just, you know, inter-community functions and travel and stuff like that. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

NOLAN HEATH: But the miners specifically. A lot of those trails were improved and -- and built upon to carry supplies for the mining communities. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: And that’s what really solidified a lot of the main trail. And why it was the main trail designation. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

NOLAN HEATH: But, uh -- but I think rightly they did recognize a lot of those side trails as being valuable and important to the history of -- of the system.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. Well, yeah, you got from Seward to Iditarod as a miner, but then maybe you traveled over to Flat, or to Ophir, or Ruby or something? NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. NOLAN HEATH: Yeah, or up to Kaltag or something.

KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. Yeah, and also getting supplies in from the Yukon (River) from Ruby might be easier than coming all the way from here.

NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. Well, and over, you know, over the years with the mining, you know, they kind of fussed around with different routes to try to get the best routes. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

NOLAN HEATH: And a lot of that depended on where the activity was, too. I mean, that’s from Seward to -- really over to Hope, when Hope really kinda took off, is where that route was really developed. ’Cause before they were going up -- more up over -- out of -- they were coming in by boat to Whittier. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh. NOLAN HEATH: And then going up over the top there. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh.

NOLAN HEATH: And, you know, that’s a pretty steep climb up outta there. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. NOLAN HEATH: Over that. But, coming out of Seward became much easier. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. NOLAN HEATH: To get in there.

KAREN BREWSTER: I mean, Turnagain Pass isn’t particularly easy. Well, I guess going to Hope, it would be before Turnagain, so it’s a little bit easier. NOLAN HEATH: Yeah, but it -- You know, coming up out through Moose Pass out of Seward was a little easier. It wasn’t as steep. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: Uh.

KAREN BREWSTER: Well, and did they go across Kenai Lake? NOLAN HEATH: Mm -- KAREN BREWSTER: No? NOLAN HEATH: I don’t know if they went across the lake itself. They might have -- you know.

KAREN BREWSTER: I don’t know the exact route down there. NOLAN HEATH: Yeah, I think the Forest Service is really -- KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. NOLAN HEATH: And -- and the state would be the ones to --

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. I know it crosses Crow Pass over into Eagle River. I know that much.

NOLAN HEATH: Yeah, that was -- that was a kind of a tough one. That was a pretty steep climb up -- up to the top of Crow Pass. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

NOLAN HEATH: But then it was a long, easy glide down to the river and down to the --

KAREN BREWSTER: Well, yeah, and nowadays, most -- is most of the trail use winter time? NOLAN HEATH: Uh, the northern part is. The southern part here, I think, is mostly summer use. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, for hikers?

NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. They run a race from Girdwood to the Eagle River Visitor Center every year. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, right. The Crow Pass Run Marathon, I think. Yeah. NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. My -- my brother-in-law actually did that one year. That’s a lotta, that’s -- KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. NOLAN HEATH: -- a long run.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah, a long run, and -- Well, you had mentioned the uh -- now I forgot what I -- the one thing you mentioned I was going to ask about. Oh, the Iron Dog and the motorized access. NOLAN HEATH: Uh-huh. KAREN BREWSTER: Was that controversial?

NOLAN HEATH: Uh, I don’t think it’s been that controversial. I mean, because they’ve used motor -- they’ve used snowmachines along that route for a long time. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: They -- even the Natives have began -- you know, they began using snowmachines for subsistence purposes. And so, I don’t think the use of snowmachines is controversial on there.

KAREN BREWSTER: So that -- that -- the Iron Dog and the permit for that was before your tenure, or did that happen during your time?

NOLAN HEATH: Towards the end of my tenure they started running that. And uh -- KAREN BREWSTER: ’Cause they had to get a permit, right? NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: From BLM?

NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. You have to get a permit if there’s a commercial side to it. In other words, if -- if somebody can make money off of the event or the activity, then -- then you need a permit. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: Otherwise, you don’t -- you wouldn’t need a permit. Just, I mean, I could get on my snowmachine -- KAREN BREWSTER: Right. NOLAN HEATH: -- and go out there without a permit, but if I was going to conduct an event where somebody might get gain from it, then -- KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: -- I would need a permit.

KAREN BREWSTER: And then what goes into the decision-making about whether a permit is authorized? I mean, do you have to do an environmental impact review?

NOLAN HEATH: Yeah, they do a -- a -- it’s usually an EA, an assessment. KAREN BREWSTER: Environmental assessment?

NOLAN HEATH: Yeah, an environmental assessment is -- Usually, you don’t need to do a full EIS (Environmental Impact Statement), 'cause there’s not that big of impact.

And an EA will identify the environmental conditions and what the limits are to prevent damage.

KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. And then, is there public comment on that? NOLAN HEATH: Yeah, there’s a -- there's a 30-day comment period on a -- on an EA, too.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah, and that’s what I was wondering, if there was any opposition and public comment?

NOLAN HEATH: I’m not aware that there ever was any when I was there. I don’t know the issues. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: Since I’ve left there. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. NOLAN HEATH: So.

KAREN BREWSTER: And the -- the sled dog race must have to get a permit every year, or are they grandfathered in?

NOLAN HEATH: No, they get a permit, you know. They have to go in and renew it every year. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: But, uh -- And, you know, over the years, there’s been a few things that have changed, you know. Sometimes the conditions are such that they need to move the location of starting. They’ve done that at times. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. NOLAN HEATH: To, you know, to protect the environment and that kind of thing, so.

KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. And is there a fee for that permit?

NOLAN HEATH: Yes, there are fees for that. Yeah. I don’t know what they are. KAREN BREWSTER: No. But that there is a fee? NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. Yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: Normally with permits, yeah. Um, so you said BLM would maintain the trail. So how did they do that? NOLAN HEATH: Well, it’s the -- it's the -- they work with a committee of all those agencies. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: To do that, uh.

And identify, you know, if there’s areas that are, uh, being impacted too much, they need to go in and restore them. They will identify those areas and what’s needed to restore it or improve it, and then they will seek the funding for it. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: And when they get the funding, then they’ll seek volunteers or hire people to go out and do the -- the work to maintain it. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: You know, whatever -- whatever that work is. You know, whether it’s improving the -- you know, maybe it’s a little swampy area and it’s getting torn up. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: And so, they might put down some, uh, mats or something to protect the -- the soil and keep people from sinking in and tearing up the ground.

KAREN BREWSTER: Just like restoring a hiking trail on the tundra? NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah, ok.

NOLAN HEATH: Or, maybe it’s, you know, in a more mountainous area where the side is sloughing off, and they need to reinforce the bank there or something to keep it from sloughing off, and, you know, protect people from going over the edge. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. NOLAN HEATH: And getting injured.

KAREN BREWSTER: And did they do brushing out and stuff, too? I don’t know how quickly it grows in. NOLAN HEATH: Uh, yeah, there’ll be brushing projects, too. I mean, along different areas of it.

KAREN BREWSTER: Every year?

NOLAN HEATH: No, usually it’s not every year. I mean, if you do a good job of brushing it, maybe five years or so before you need to go back in and do it again.

Sometimes it depends on how much use a trail gets, too. If you get a lot of use on a trail, it tend to keep the brushing back.

KAREN BREWSTER: Even on a winter trail? NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, ok.

NOLAN HEATH: Um, on a winter trail, a lot of it depends on the snowpack, how much snow you get. And uh, if you get enough snow, then, you know, that protects some of the vegetation, too. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. NOLAN HEATH: So.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah, and I know in -- in some places, the BLM seasonality of use is -- NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Seasonal and snow base, ’cause, like, for snowmachines to protect the vegetation. NOLAN HEATH: Right. Right.

KAREN BREWSTER: So that would also apply to the Iditarod Trail?

NOLAN HEATH: Yeah, and -- and that also -- grooming the trail is another thing, you know, to protect that and keep it fr --

You know, particularly where you’re using snowmachines and stuff like that, you want to groom it to -- otherwise you get a lot of wash-boarding and -- KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, right.

NOLAN HEATH: And it really can tear up the -- the bottoms of those (inaudible), you really start tearing up vegetation.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. And so, who does the trail grooming?

NOLAN HEATH: Uh, you have, uh -- You -- you -- They’ll either contract it and have people come in, or they’ll have staffing that goes out, you know, weekly or so, and grooms it.

KAREN BREWSTER: BLM staff? NOLAN HEATH: Could be BLM. It could be state -- KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. NOLAN HEATH: -- employees doing their sections or Forest Service people doing theirs. It depends on the ownership of the land.

KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. Yeah, I didn’t know that if just people in the local communities went out and groomed it.

NOLAN HEATH: I mean, they could, you know, have agreements with those people to go out and do it. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: And, you know, compensate ’em in some fashion.

KAREN BREWSTER: Well, and I was also thinking before the Iditarod Race, they do a main -- they must do a major grooming, and I just assumed that was the race committee.

NOLAN HEATH: Uh, well, the race committee works with the local managers to do that, and the timing of it. And, you know, a lot of it’s done by volunteers. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

NOLAN HEATH: And they get people to come in. And those volunteers are usually local people, you know. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. NOLAN HEATH: So, yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: They know their section of trail. NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. And a lot of them do it year after year, and they -- You know, they know, ok, it’s that time of year again, and get ready. You know, let’s go out and do a run and -- KAREN BREWSTER: Right. NOLAN HEATH: -- groom trails.

KAREN BREWSTER: And you’ll certainly hear stories of people out on the trail, and there’s a big snowstorm, and then there’s no more trail. NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah

NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. I think the biggest opposition that I’ve had when I was there was, um, really the -- the animal protection people. I’m trying to think of -- KAREN BREWSTER: PETA. NOLAN HEATH: PETA? KAREN BREWSTER: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals? NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

NOLAN HEATH: And their big worry was the -- the treatment of the race dogs. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: You know, not so much the trail itself and the use of the trail, but really -- I mean now -- but that’s what we, you know, were faced with was all of that opposition. KAREN BREWSTER: Right, for -- for a permit.

NOLAN HEATH: And working with the -- with the race people and saying -- making sure they were addressing all those issues in their perm -- you know, so we could permit ’em to do it. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. Right. NOLAN HEATH: So.

KAREN BREWSTER: Um, so those trail shelters, the cabins? What was the -- what’s the purpose of those?

NOLAN HEATH: Well, there’s various purposes, ’cause they’re used both summer and winter by various people. But they’re -- they're basically shelters. They’re considered in some respects emergency shelters. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: If somebody gets out there, and, you know, gets in trouble, they can utilize those shelters to, you know, save their lives, basically -- KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

NOLAN HEATH: -- if they get in a storm or just get caught or something. So that’s -- so there’s multiple purposes for those shelters, but they also serve as checkpoints for, uh, the race -- KAREN BREWSTER: Oh. NOLAN HEATH: -- system, too. Um.

KAREN BREWSTER: I didn’t know that. I thought the checkpoints were in -- all in villages. NOLAN HEATH: Uh, no, I think, like the Rohn Roadhouse, Rohn Cabin. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: Is one of BLM’s cabins that’s a checkpoint. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

NOLAN HEATH: And, you know, that I remember specifically, but I thought there was a couple of ’em that -- KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah, I don’t know them. NOLAN HEATH: But, uh, yeah, that -- So those were the, you know, the purposes.

KAREN BREWSTER: And what goes -- what’s insi -- What is a sort of a standard size, and how are they outfitted? Do they have wood in them, for instance or --?

NOLAN HEATH: Yeah, BLM -- BLM maintains them. They provide a wood st -- for firewood, and so they’re supplied with bunks and, um, a stove and a place to sit and eat, you know.

They have a log book for people to sign in and -- and express their thoughts about the -- the cabin and the trail and all of that, you know. And, so those are, you know, might be interesting to read one of those. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. NOLAN HEATH: And see what people write about the whole thing.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. And where are those kept? They’re kept at the BLM office here? NOLAN HEATH: Well, they’re kept at the cabin, and then at the end of the year, they bring ’em in and, you know, they store that information at the -- at the BLM, the local Anchorage office. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: Field office, so. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

NOLAN HEATH: That’s where those would be.

KAREN BREWSTER: So they’re just like regular public use cabins? NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Do you have to make a reservation? NOLAN HEATH: Uh. KAREN BREWSTER: Like you do at some public use cabins?

NOLAN HEATH: I don’t know if they do out along there. I know they were talking about it, ’cause like, they -- they do in the White Mountains. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: For the cabins they have there. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. NOLAN HEATH: They -- they do have a reservation ’cause there’s so much use of ’em. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

NOLAN HEATH: I don’t know that out along the Iditarod they get as much use. And I don’t know if they have to reserve ’em. KAREN BREWSTER: Right, that’s what I was wondering.

NOLAN HEATH: Or if they just have to let BLM know, "Hey, I’m going to be out there. Is there anybody else going to be there, you know." KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. NOLAN HEATH: Kind of thing.

KAREN BREWSTER: Well, and who restocks the firewood? I mean, like, I know at the White Mountains -- NOLAN HEATH: BLM. KAREN BREWSTER: -- BLM does it, but the Iditarod Trail, those seem so remote.

NOLAN HEATH: Well, BLM would -- you know, they’ll fly out there and -- and service those cabins and, you know, make sure they’re stocked with firewood and kept up and stuff. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: You know. A lot of times, if volunteers are coming out there or whatever, they’ll do some -- You know, they’ll say, "Hey, you know, what’s the condition out there? Low on firewood, or whatever? You, know, hey."

Or if somebody’s going out, they’ll say, "Well, you know, what needs to be done out here?" KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: You know, and they’ll talk to the BLM manager, and they’ll say, "Well, if you can do this or that, that’d be helpful." And then they’ll report back and say, "Yeah, I did this and that. An you got this now." You know. So there’s a lot of that camaraderie and communication back and forth. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: That helps maintain those cabins.

KAREN BREWSTER: I was thinking during your time as Deputy State Director there were lots of projects going on, with the minerals and the resources, and um, where did the trail fall into that? I mean, how much of a priority is the Iditarod Trail compared to the other things?

NOLAN HEATH: Well, I think it’s -- it's as -- You know, that’s -- that's hard to say because from year to year, priorities shift around. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: But there was a specific funding category for the trail, you know, for that. And so, the field office had a -- a -- they have a person who’s designated to, um, specifically focus on the trail, and coordinate with the other agencies on that and -- and generate funding for that. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: And so, yeah, I would say it has, you know, a high level of importance with the agency.

Um, you know, would I say it’s as high as some of the other projects from year to year? No. But in other times, yes. Uh, you know, it just -- it varies from year to year. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah, I just wonder, you know --

NOLAN HEATH: But is it ever just like, forgotten, set aside? No. There’s always -- there’s somebody there working with it year to year, day in, day out.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah, the fact that they had a designated trail administer -- administrator staff position, I find amazing, really.

NOLAN HEATH: Yeah, well, I mean that’s -- You know, if you’re going to have a national trail system, you need to have somebody who’s going to, uh, be over that and, you know, be able to work with all the other partners in terms of what needs to be done and how to do that.

Otherwise, you really -- I mean, you only have a designation in name only. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. NOLAN HEATH: I mean, otherwise, you don’t really have much.

KAREN BREWSTER: Right. And I was wondering if that -- that, maybe -- That’s what I’m surprised that BLM took it on and -- and implemented it and didn’t just have it in name only.

NOLAN HEATH: No, it’s a -- it's a requirement of the law to have somebody do that and -- KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. NOLAN HEATH: -- be there.

So, I mean, you know, when -- when Congress designated it, they committed to provide funding for that position, and to push that forward and work with the other agencies.

’Cause, you know, when you make a designation like that, you know there’s a lot of work ahead. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: There’s a lot to that.

And it’s -- You know, you can’t just say, it’s there, and then ignore it. You gotta do something with it. And I think they’ve done a commendable job.

KAREN BREWSTER: So the BLM administration, did they ever feel like, uh, this trail, it’s such a nuisance, and it’s a thorn in our side?

NOLAN HEATH: No. No, I don’t think they view it like that at all. I think they view it as an opportunity. And uh, I think they enjoy working with the other agencies.

And, you know, there’s always challenges, but, they -- you know, they were committed to work with that and, um, I think they’re doing a great job at it. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: So.

KAREN BREWSTER: Do you have examples of some of those challenges? NOLAN HEATH: Well, the -- the permitting is probably one of the bigger ones. You know, making sure -- KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: -- that you have that. You know, uh, funding from the various different agencies is another challenge, you know, that -- KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: Um. And then, you know, just working with the different events, and the people from those events. Or, you know, the details of all of that is -- can sometimes be a little challenging. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: But I think we’ve always met that head-on, and, you know, worked -- tried to find solutions that worked for everybody.

KAREN BREWSTER: Any specific challenges that you dealt with when you were in the position?

NOLAN HEATH: Uh, you’d have to talk to Mike more specifically about that, but I the -- the thing that I remember was there was some issues with regard to, um -- in the permitting process for the Iditarod events. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: Uh, how the Iditarod committee really calculated their profits and assets and all of that. Which is what determined their fees for their permit and some of that stuff.

So there were some challenges working through the details of that so that everybody was on the same page. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: As to why -- what was really what on that. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

NOLAN HEATH: So. Because, you know, any time they’re -- they're making a profit off of that it -- you know, if you’re making millions of dollars and paying peanuts for the right to do that, you know, as opposed to somebody else who’s making, maybe thousands of dollars and paying hundreds of dollars for -- KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, right. NOLAN HEATH: -- for a permit.

You know, so that's -- those challenges are the balance of what that was all about.

KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. Well, and I -- as -- as the direct -- the Deputy State Director, maybe some things didn’t rise to your level? NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. A lot of that -- KAREN BREWSTER: I don’t know how that --

NOLAN HEATH: A lot of that was handled by the local field office. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: You know, they -- they did most of that. I mean, what come to my level a lot of times was, once the field office had said, "Hey, you know, here’s -- here's what we need in our budget next year to be able to accomplish these projects." And, you know, I -- I would work with Washington staff to ensure that the budget included those things. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: And, you know, try to ensure that that carried through so that when the budget come out, we had funding specifically for those projects.

KAREN BREWSTER: So you had to balance requests for the trail with requests for --? NOLAN HEATH: For all of the other resources. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. NOLAN HEATH: And there’s 26 or so different funding streams that all vied for -- for dollars.

KAREN BREWSTER: So how did you make those decisions?

NOLAN HEATH: Well, it’s a -- it's a planning process. And, you know, you’d meet together with the different field offices, and talk about priorities, and you would talk about, um, funding. And, you know, you’d set up standards and stuff was, you know, "Ok, how are we going to judge all these things?"

And then you would throw all that stuff in the hat. Each field office would throw their stuff in, and you’d meet together, and -- You know, so all of the -- the outdoor people would get together from the different field offices and go through all their different projects and rank ’em all and say, "Ok, here’s the -- here's our priorities on these things."

And then that would carry forward, and we’d put together a state budget. And that would go to Washington, and then they would compete with all the other states. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

NOLAN HEATH: For their projects. You know, from the -- And so, that -- it was -- it’s a -- it was a who’s the best salesman?

KAREN BREWSTER: Well, I was going to say, it’s a lobbying effort on the -- NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: That they could sell their project up the line.

NOLAN HEATH: And a lot of -- a lot of times, you know, we had managers who liked to have what they called "shelf-ready projects." So that they had staffed it all out and priced it all out and had plans on the shelf, and so, if -- if money come through, they could pull these plans off the shelf and say, "We’re ready to go." KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: And we can use that money, and "phe" (sound effect) go. And uh, so we encouraged them to do that.

KAREN BREWSTER: That gave them a slight advantage in the process? NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. Yep.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. Well, it sounds like a tough position to have to be making all those decisions. And balancing all that lobbying from the staff.

NOLAN HEATH: Yeah, well, it’s a -- it's a communication process, and, you know, relationship building. You know, if I get you this money, are you really going to do this project, or are you just trying to pad your books for something else that you want to do, you know? So you build those relationships and those trusts

And then, the other thing is, if you’re partnering with another agency, and you can push that forward and say, "Hey, you know, here’s the project we need to get done, and it involves these three agencies. And these guys are providing their funding. We need to provide ours." And so you had a little more stroke that way.

Uh, and so, it’s -- it was all strategizing and -- and planning. And then really, understanding the importance of different projects, you know. Is this really significant, or can I wait another year on this? You know. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: And, uh, that’s always a balancing project. KAREN BREWSTER: Were -- NOLAN HEATH: And I’m sure you’re used to it, and --

KAREN BREWSTER: I am. Um, were there times when, um, you -- a project was planned with multiple agencies, and another agency didn’t come up with the funding for their share? NOLAN HEATH: Oh, yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: And then what?

NOLAN HEATH: Well, then you go back to the drawing board and adjust and figure out, you know, ok, here’s what we do have. Here’s what we can get done. And then maybe this piece, we have to wait until next year or whatever, if the other agency gets their funding.

Or maybe we can come up with some donation somewhere to cover that part of it. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: You know, there’s -- you look for lots of different opportunities.

And things throughout the year would change. You know, I mean, you get the plan at the beginning of the year. You get funding. And then something happens on a project, and -- and it gets stalled out.

And so, now you have this money for this Project A, but you can’t do Project A for some particular reason, and so, can I shift that money over and accomplish this project here?

And then, when that problem on the other one gets worked out, then I can shift money back over. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: On another year to cover that project.

And so, there’s -- that’s a part of the internal workings, you know, throughout the year, too, on projects that -- KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: -- you deal with.

KAREN BREWSTER: Did it ever happen that BLM -- You got the money for a BLM project on the trail, and then BLM didn’t -- the staff that was supposed to do the project didn’t do it? NOLAN HEATH: Uh, I found that at the local level, they were very committed to doing those things. And unless they were overridden by upper management, they got it done.

KAREN BREWSTER: So how would that happen, they’d get overridden by upper management? What does that mean?

NOLAN HEATH: Oh, say, suddenly out of -- Congress, for example, would say -- All of a sudden they’ve got some big high priority thing that they roll down, and they tell Interior (U.S. Department of the Interior), "Ok, you need to get this done, and you need to get it done now." And Interior goes, "Ok, BLM, we’re shifting some of your money." Well, and all of a sudden, you don’t have the money you thought you had. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm. NOLAN HEATH: Because they’ve jerked it over for something else. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, I see.

NOLAN HEATH: You know, and -- and -- and if Congress chooses to do that, or if -- or if the Secretary of Interior, or who -- you know, as it rolls down the hill, you don’t have much flexibility there. And so, you roll with it. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

NOLAN HEATH: And you work it. But, usually when the money gets down to your level, they don’t mess with it too much. And -- and you’re able to do what you need to do.

KAREN BREWSTER: And -- and those -- the local -- at the local level who were doing these projects, they were pretty much independent? There wasn’t a lot of oversight or --?

NOLAN HEATH: Well, yeah, they were pretty inde -- they just had to answer at the end of the year. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: I mean, if you were provided money to them and -- and uh, you know, over the course of a few years, you know, somebody from Washington comes out and wants to see all the stuff you’ve been doing and you haven’t been doing it, you’re not going to get any more money. I mean, it’s -- KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

NOLAN HEATH: You know, they learn pretty quickly that, you know, if they’re not getting stuff done, they’re not getting money in the next years. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. NOLAN HEATH: So.

KAREN BREWSTER: And people wouldn’t get -- would people get fired if they didn’t get stuff done? NOLAN HEATH: Well, they definitely got -- I don’t know that they get fired, but they definitely get disciplined.

KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, I was going to say, or they get reappointed to a different region?

NOLAN HEATH: Yeah, they get their wings trimmed pretty good. So. Yeah, now, it’s -- it's a -- You know, it’s a give and take and working relationship. And you have some people that are better at it than others.

And, you know, Alaska’s a particular challenge. You know, we had, I think, a more than challenging effort to convince Washington that we needed more dollars to do these projects because of our remote nature. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: Um, it was a lot more expensive to do this stuff up here than in the Lower 48. And so, their tendency was to fund stuff in the Lower 48 ’cause they could get so much more done with the dollars than they could in Alaska. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: Because it’s so much more expensive. And, you know, you say, well, I’m going to do this project out in -- out of Nome. And -- and so you gotta fly all the stuff into Nome. And then you get to Nome, and you gotta get a helicopter contract to go out to the field to do this.

And you get to Nome, and the weather’s bad, and you can’t fly in a helicopter. And so, you sit in Nome for three days, and you’re burning money. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

NOLAN HEATH: Sitting in Nome. You’re burning money on the helicopter contract. You’re burning money on the hotels and the food, and, you know, all of that stuff.

And uh -- and then maybe you run out of money and you can’t get the project done. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

NOLAN HEATH: And then Washington says, "Well, what the heck happened?" "Well, the weather beat me." You know. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

NOLAN HEATH: It’s just like the guy on the pipeline told us one time on a project when he was -- we were replacing a valve project. He says, "Sometimes the bear gets you, and sometimes you get the bear."

KAREN BREWSTER: It’s true. I was going to say, the benefit of being weathered out in Nome and, lot -- you know, all that stuff, you help the local economy a little bit. Put some money back in.

NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes, you know, you spend two or three days and then you were able to get out, and you get the project done. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

NOLAN HEATH: But it’s still a higher cost than you had budgeted for. KAREN BREWSTER: Well, and -- NOLAN HEATH: And planned for.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. I was thinking all the trail work that BLM does on the Iditarod Trail, whether it’s the shelters or the marking the trail. You must’ve had to use a lot of helicopters for that?

NOLAN HEATH: We do a lotta -- we do a lotta helicopter work. We do a lot of -- of point-to-point flights. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

NOLAN HEATH: You know, flying stuff. We do a lot of -- of ATV, snowmachine, a lot of those kinda skills are needed to --

KAREN BREWSTER: So coming at -- like, you’d fly to McGrath, and then snowmachine, and --? NOLAN HEATH: And then you take a snowmachine out from there. Or, you know, something like that. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. NOLAN HEATH: So, yeah, I mean --

KAREN BREWSTER: And that’s more expensive than the Lower 48 and just driving to a trailhead. NOLAN HEATH: Yeah, I mean, in the Lower 48, a lot of those people can get up in the morning, get in their truck, drive out to the site, do the project, come home, and sleep at home at night. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

NOLAN HEATH: Where we have to book a flight, we have to pay the freight to get the stuff there, we have to book hotel nights, pay per diem. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

NOLAN HEATH: And some of the per diem in some of these places is two or three times higher than the Lower 48, anyway. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. NOLAN HEATH: Plus, and they’re not doing any of that, on top of that. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

NOLAN HEATH: So it’s -- it's -- Yeah, and, you know, once you get some trust built up with Washington, and you bring them out, and -- You know, I remember people calling me from Washington saying, "The secretary of so-and-so wants to come to Alaska. They’re going to be coming through Alaska, and they want to go see this and this and this."

And my first question to them is, "Well, how long are they going to be there?" "Well, they’re going to be there overnight."

And I say, "Well, then they’re not going to be able to see this and this. They might be able to see this." "Well, why?"

"Well, because if you want to go see this, you gotta book a flight out, and there’s one flight a day that goes, and it leaves at this time of the day. And it goes there. And then you’re going to overnight, and -- "

'Cause you can’t catch the flight back if you’re going to go see this, because -- KAREN BREWSTER: Right. NOLAN HEATH: -- it goes there and then comes back. And so, you got to wait ’til the next day to come back.

And then when you get there, it’s weather dependent. If the weather’s good, you’re going to be able to go see it. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. NOLAN HEATH: If not, you’ve gone there and back, and you don’t see anything.

KAREN BREWSTER: Or if you’re going to a village and something occurs in the village. NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. It might not happen. KAREN BREWSTER: They may not be there. They’re not available. NOLAN HEATH: That’s right.

KAREN BREWSTER: That’s the other thing that happens, right? NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah, it’s very unpredictable.

NOLAN HEATH: Or you plan on a ten o'clock meeting, and they show up at three in the afternoon. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. Or they don’t have a quorum, you know. NOLAN HEATH: ’Cause that’s their time frame. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. Um.

NOLAN HEATH: So it’s -- it's -- You know, and -- and helping Washington understand some of those logistics. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: I mean, we had the Secretary of Interior one time say he was going to come up and walk around some lake up on NPRA (National Petroleum Reserve - Alaska).

Well, you know, that’s like a five-day journey to walk around this lake. You really going to do that? I mean, you really think you’re going to? You know.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. It’s definitely some -- So, that leads into education. And I was thinking about educating the public about the historic nature of the Iditarod Trail. ’Cause, you know, so many people, they know about the dog race. NOLAN HEATH: Yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: But it seems like the public in Alaska, I don’t think they knew the history of the trail and that it has a trail designation.

NOLAN HEATH: Oh, yeah. And what they don’t know is the early history of -- of the Natives and the -- and the mining.

You know, and the -- the -- how these communities become so populated and then gone. And then, you know, and -- and the Natives, you know, warring back and forth between their little villages -- KAREN BREWSTER: Right. NOLAN HEATH: -- and groups, too, you know. And the trails they used for that. And the subsistence things that occurred. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: And what they were -- What were they really hunting and looking for? You know, the berries, the plants, the game. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: You know, the different things like that. And the miners, you know, how did they get their supplies? How did they --? You know, I mean, that was a big thing. If you’re gonna mine, it’s one thing to go out there with your little donkey and a backpack. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

NOLAN HEATH: And camp, you know. I mean, that's what I think most America thinks of miners, is these little onesie-twosies with donkeys, and -- KAREN BREWSTER: Right. NOLAN HEATH: -- going out -- and then --

Well, up here, that wasn’t a lot of that. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. NOLAN HEATH: It was a dogsled team and a big pack. And then you had -- You know, and how did you get your mail, and how did --? You know, a lot of different things.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah, and those sleds were heavy. They had a lot of freight they were carrying. NOLAN HEATH: Oh, yeah. Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. Is that an airplane? I guess so. NOLAN HEATH: Yep.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yep. Um, no, that’s what I was thinking is that the dogsled race sort of helped publicize the trail. It gave people -- NOLAN HEATH: Right. KAREN BREWSTER: -- connection. That, um --

NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. Well, it's the -- You know, the connection started, I think, with the serum run. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: When they had the epidemic.

And, you know, they -- because those trails had been improved, they were able to use the dogsleds to get the serum to those villages and save a lot of lives.

And then sometime later, um, Joe Redington, you know, kind of promoted that as a route for a race. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: To kinda commemorate that whole thing. And tied that Iditarod Race to that, because that was kinda one of the major routes for the serum run.

And so, I think that was a connection for the -- how the racing came to be, and then that sort of launched it internationally. You know, you started getting racers from all around the world. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: Coming for this big race, and the competition, and um.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah, I mean, I think now, you know, I tell people, "Oh, I’m working on this project about the Iditarod Trail," and they immediately just think it’s the race. NOLAN HEATH: Think of the race.

KAREN BREWSTER: I think most Alaskans prob -- don’t know that it’s designated as a historic trail. NOLAN HEATH: Right. And when you --

KAREN BREWSTER: So, what has BLM done to try and, uh, change that view?

NOLAN HEATH: Well, uh, you know, I think your interpretive analysis, um, and signage. You know, marking the trails and putting up, you know, that this is a national historic trail markers, uh, so that people recognize it.

And then in your -- BLM’s done a lot with mapping and putting out maps available to the public to allow them to, you know, go online and act -- Say, "Oh hey, here’s somewhere I could go, and here’s the -- you know, starting point, and, you know, I can go hike this portion, and --" KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: And, you know, with that comes some interpretation of what it is and that. And, you know, the different agencies, you know, getting into recognize it as a historic trail system and -- and to mark it accordingly, too.

You go on -- you go on the Internet, and you look up the Iditarod Trail, first thing you’re going to get’s the dog race. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: I mean -- KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

NOLAN HEATH: But are you going to find the national historic trail? I mean, if you type that in, are they gonna -- Iditarod National Historic Trail, and, you know, you can find the report. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. NOLAN HEATH: That they did, that proposed the designation to -- That has a lot of good information in it. Stuff, but, uh --

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah, I was wondering if during your tenure, were there any particular interpretive education things you remember that got accomplished?

NOLAN HEATH: No, I -- We were -- we were at the beginning of trying to get the right of way secured more. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: I mean, that was the bigger focus when I was there was really -- KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. NOLAN HEATH: -- you know, trying to secure the rights to the right of way, so that you could protect it.

And from there, then -- then you were able to begin to improve and mark and establish -- ’cause without that right of way, it’s pretty hard to go onto those lands and -- and put up markers or interpretive signage or anything to -- KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: You know, so that when the public is there, they see it as a historic trail, rather than just another trail that the dogs are running on.

KAREN BREWSTER: Right. Is there any interpretive signage at the beginning of the trail or out in Nome? NOLAN HEATH: There is at -- in Seward on -- KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, there is in Seward. NOLAN HEATH: At mile's hour. KAREN BREWSTER: Right, I’ve been there. NOLAN HEATH: At Mile Zero. There is in --

KAREN BREWSTER: I was thinking, like in Willow or Knik or someplace? NOLAN HEATH: There is at Willow and Knik. There’s some -- some interpretive places there.

Um, and, you know, when you -- when you go on the Web, I mean, they’re -- they're working to improve websites that, you know, let people know a little bit about it and what the history is, and, you know, areas that are accessible for them to -- if they want to hike or if they want to snowmachine or ski or whatever. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: You know, what -- what uses are easy or more difficult to do.

KAREN BREWSTER: Right. And a lot of that all happens at the trail administrator level. NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Probably, then where you were at?

NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. Yeah, it is. And it’s -- and it's all done through this cooperative agreement and committee. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: That works, you know, ’cause you want it all to be coordinated. You know, you don’t want all these agencies kinda going off on their own. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: I mean, you -- you want to keep it coordinated, and that’s the role of BLM is to kinda keep that coordinated.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah, and I’ve always assumed that because BLM is -- has a trail administrator is the kind of the, quote-unquote “manager” of the trail. I didn’t realize there was a committee.

NOLAN HEATH: There is a committee, and that’s -- that's the strong part. Because the majority of it isn’t owned by BLM. The majority of it’s probably owned by the state. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

NOLAN HEATH: Uh, Forest Service has a big portion in the southern. And Fish & Wildlife Service has a big portion out in the flats. Um, towards the west coast. And the Native villages out there, um, so --

KAREN BREWSTER: Do they have representation on the committee? NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

NOLAN HEATH: You know, all those entities are represented in that committee and work together to establish the priorities and the goals, and how they can help each other achieve different things.

Um, what the central message they want to put out is, how they want it to appear, you know.

KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. Yeah, I find that very interesting that, it’s a -- because of all the land owners, that there has to be this committee.

NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. Well, and, you know, I -- I haven’t looked into these other scenic trail systems, but I'd imagine there’s a committee with those people, too, that -- KAREN BREWSTER: I have no idea.

NOLAN HEATH: You know, there’s probably a designated lead agency, but I’m sure there’s a group of people from different entities, ownerships, that are having their voice in how, you know, how the trail's managed.

KAREN BREWSTER: Even though that BLM’s the lead agency, um, they don’t just go ahead and make their own decisions ’cause they’re the lead? NOLAN HEATH: No. Well, they can on their own lands. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

NOLAN HEATH: You know, I mean, as can any other agency. You know. But the idea of the committee is to, you know, are we all achieving the same goal.

I mean, you know, and to kinda make sure we’re staying in line with what Congress designated the purpose of the trail for. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: And, you know, what its values are, and how do we, uh, interpret those values? How do we educate people on those values? How do we, you know --? That’s, to me, the purpose of the committee is to coordinate all those things and then, you know, enhance that. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

NOLAN HEATH: Through community cooperation and effort.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah, and -- and I guess most recreational trails are shorter, and they’re therefore within the boundaries of a national park, or within the Forest Service. This is unusual, because it crosses so many entities. NOLAN HEATH: Right. Right. Yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. So yeah, the Park Service has a recreational trail on their land, they don’t need to consult with anybody else. It’s their land.

NOLAN HEATH: Yeah, I mean, they look for input, but they make the decisions. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Um.

NOLAN HEATH: And the same with the -- the committee’s looking for input from the public and from other people, you know. But, they’re also -- after they get all that input and weigh it, you know, they’re making the decisions on, you know, the priorities and what’s -- what it -- what to do. Because their objective and purpose is to protect those designated purposes. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. NOLAN HEATH: And rights, so --

KAREN BREWSTER: And what about the Historic Trail Alliance? Well, it used to be the Iditarod Trail Advisory Council, and then it became the Trail Alliance.

What is their role? How did BLM coordinate and work with them?

NOLAN HEATH: Well, I think that morphed into the committee. I mean, that’s what, you know, ultimately transitioned into the representation from all these owners in forming a committee.

But, you know, they -- the -- you know, the Alliance would’ve, you know, taken what Congress put into -- into law and defined -- You know, clarified the mapping and made sure -- You know, start that process.

But it’s really the committee and that agreement. They probably were the ones who were instrumental in putting the first initial agreement together among all those agencies that formed the committee. And uh, you know --

KAREN BREWSTER: And I think -- I was thinking if BLM coordinated with the Trail Alliance, like on the cabins, that the Trail Alliance people helped with that, for instance. NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. Well, you know, they would’ve had input on that, and -- KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: -- you know. But because there’s more purposes than, they -- you know, those that are involved in the historic trail, you know, BLM would’ve had maybe a little more weighty decision-making in that than -- But they would’ve certainly listened to the Alliance, and -- KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: And the committee and that to, you know, make sure it aligned with their goals, too.

KAREN BREWSTER: Um, is there any projects related to the trail that you wish could’ve been done while you were there?

NOLAN HEATH: Uh, I -- I would’ve wished that we could’ve got farther along in the process of designating, um, the specific rights. You know, protections. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: Because that’s so key. That’s -- that's, um, kind of the starting point, you know.

KAREN BREWSTER: Right. Yeah, that's interesting, what you said about that.

NOLAN HEATH: Yeah, you -- you need -- you need that document in order to really grant the permission to move forward with some of the other things, you know. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: Otherwise, you stand the chance of you go do something, put some money into something, and then somebody else comes along and changes it. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. NOLAN HEATH: ’Cause you don’t have the protection.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. Well, and the checkerboard of land ownership that you had to deal with over a thousand miles, it’s not surprising that that’s still ongoing. NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. Yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: That’s a lot of property owners or agencies or whoever.

NOLAN HEATH: Yeah, and sometimes, you know, you might have to wait out ’til somebody passes on and somebody else inherits the rights, and they have a different mentality and are willing to work with you. KAREN BREWSTER: Or the other way around. NOLAN HEATH: Yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: Does it happen the other way around? NOLAN HEATH: Uh, usually not, with Congress having designated it. That designation will probably always be there.

KAREN BREWSTER: But that doesn’t mean the property owner has to like it? NOLAN HEATH: No, doesn’t have to like it. And sometimes they may hold out until they pass on, and then somebody else inherits it.

KAREN BREWSTER: I heard a story about one homestead that the, you know, family members that inherited it re-routed the trail around their property. Is that --? I don’t know what year that was, though. NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: It might’ve been before your time? NOLAN HEATH: Yeah, I don’t know. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

NOLAN HEATH: I’m not familiar with that one. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. NOLAN HEATH: So.

KAREN BREWSTER: Mostly you just let the -- NOLAN HEATH: I mean, it is -- it’s possible that that was a resolution to that. KAREN BREWSTER: Well, I don’t think it was an agreeable resolution. It’s -- But, I -- I guess that’s the question is, yeah, so, there’s --

NOLAN HEATH: I would think it would depend on -- You know, are we talking about cutting across the corner of somebody’s property and re-routing around that, you know, and so you have a minor adjustment. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

NOLAN HEATH: Or are you talking about, uh -- KAREN BREWSTER: It sounded like a big re-route. NOLAN HEATH: You know, several miles of re-route? KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

NOLAN HEATH: You know, and uh, you know, maybe that was feasible. You know, and -- You know, but if -- if I have good ground going across here, and you want me to re-route through a bog, maybe that’s not so feasible. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: And I know I dealt that with what they call 17-B easements, which was access easements across Native lands.

When they would designate -- when they would convey lands to the Natives, they would designate easements, rights of way for access to private lands or public lands so that, you know, you didn’t get an isolated piece of land somewhere. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. NOLAN HEATH: That you didn’t have any access to. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: And sometimes, we would re-route that access a little bit to avoid things that were important to the Native people. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: You know. But, I could see that that is possible with this national historic trail.

KAREN BREWSTER: So the -- the national historic trail, it’s designated a certain route, but you have the ability to do a little -- NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: -- re-routing along the way? NOLAN HEATH: Yeah, I mean, you know, ’cause it wasn’t surveyed. You know, it was -- it was, you know, from this town to this town. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: From this town to this town. This site, you know. And that was the main -- And people were using those trails. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

NOLAN HEATH: And it was envisioned that they would be, you know, shored up, solidified, done, you know. But in that process, you might need to alter some of that a little bit.

KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. So there’s some wiggle room without losing the historic nature of it? NOLAN HEATH: Right. Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

NOLAN HEATH: And that, you know, that would all come into consideration in a decision to alter or re-route that a little bit.

KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. In the state, we have these RS 2477 (rights-of-way) historic routes. Um, how does that relate to the historic trail? Is there any connection there?

NOLAN HEATH: Uh, there -- there could be some crossover there, I would think. Um, RS 2477's was a, um, an authorization to allow states to improve -- Uh, create roads, basically. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: And so, if they could show that they had contributed, um, use and money to a route to improve that as a road, then they could claim that as a RS 2477 route. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: And uh, but the burden on them to show that they had really put money into it and improved it and had used it as a -- as a road access, uh, is part of that RS 2477.

And -- and there are places where roads have crossed over and -- and sur -- sur -- surplaced, surplanted. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. NOLAN HEATH: The -- Replaced the route. The -- KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: -- original trail route.

KAREN BREWSTER: But you don’t see that the Iditarod Trail would get -- would be seen as one of these historic RS 2477 routes, and they’d try and make a road? NOLAN HEATH: Uh.

KAREN BREWSTER: Is it susceptible to that? I guess that’s the question.

NOLAN HEATH: Uh, to me, it -- it would be a dual -- a double layer. I mean, you’d have one on top of the other, basically. Neither one of them would be jeopardized by the other. They’d both exist there. If one ever went away, the other one'd still remain.

KAREN BREWSTER: So the historic trail designation doesn’t protect the trail from a potential RS 2477 claim? If they could prove that they used it. NOLAN HEATH: Yeah, because they would’ve already have happened. I mean, you’re just now recognizing it later. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

NOLAN HEATH: You know, but the -- the fact that it had already been improved and used as a road would already -- KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. NOLAN HEATH: -- have occurred. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. I get it. NOLAN HEATH: So. KAREN BREWSTER: Thank you for explaining that. NOLAN HEATH: Yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: RS 2477's are very complicated subject. And I only just started thinking about it, "Oh, that maybe there’s a connection?"

NOLAN HEATH: Well, it’s actually was about one and a half lines in law. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, really, that’s all? NOLAN HEATH: That’s all. KAREN BREWSTER: It’s state law or federal law? NOLAN HEATH: Federal law. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, I thought it was a state law.

NOLAN HEATH: No, it was a federal law that granted the states the right to improve and create roads. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: Basically. By improving them. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

NOLAN HEATH: And if they could show they’d done that, then they could claim that as a road right of way. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: Under RS 2477 law.

KAREN BREWSTER: Right. And I know there was a big project done to inventory all that stuff. That’s a whole ’nother topic. NOLAN HEATH: (laughing) Yes.

KAREN BREWSTER: Um, so you've mentioned a few of the other BLM people, Mike and -- NOLAN HEATH: Ramona Chinn. KAREN BREWSTER: Ramona and Wayne Bowden (sp?).

Were there other key players or in the other agencies that you remember during your tenure?

NOLAN HEATH: Uh, most of that was done at the field management level, and I -- I didn’t get involved in that too much. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. NOLAN HEATH: So I -- I don’t know names of -- KAREN BREWSTER: Right. NOLAN HEATH: -- those other players. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

NOLAN HEATH: But I -- I know they were there and actively involved in it. They met on a regular basis. They, you know -- KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: Prioritized projects, move, you know -- Then I took what the field office pushed forward at the state level for budgeting purposes, and, you know --

KAREN BREWSTER: So do you remember who was in charge of the field office? Or is that the name we can’t remember? NOLAN HEATH: Yeah, and I’ll -- I'll get it for you.

KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. ’Cause that would’ve been your main contact --? NOLAN HEATH: Yes. KAREN BREWSTER: -- through the line? NOLAN HEATH: Yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: Ok, with then Mike as the -- NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: -- trail guy? NOLAN HEATH: Yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: Was he the -- the trail administrator the whole time you were there, or did it --? NOLAN HEATH: Yes. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

NOLAN HEATH: Yes. I think so. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. Ok. NOLAN HEATH: I wouldn’t be certain, but I think so.

KAREN BREWSTER: I can’t remember. I -- The -- the current trail administrator, Kevin Keeler, I can’t remember when he started.

NOLAN HEATH: When I went back to the pipeline office, and I didn’t really track that too much, and -- KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

NOLAN HEATH: ’Cause I was heavily involved in those pump stations we were building.

KAREN BREWSTER: Right. Yeah, I was thinking during your time where you would have had purview over the trail. NOLAN HEATH: Yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: If there are any other names or players you remember? NOLAN HEATH: No, uh. Um, Fran Cherry was the State Director (until 2002 when became BLM’s Deputy Director for Operations in Washington, D.C.). Sally Wisely was the Associate State Director through most of that time frame (she was the BLM Associate State Director for Alaska from 1994-1999, when she became the BLM State Director for Utah. In 2005, she became the BLM State Director for Colorado).

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah, and it is a little confusing for those of us outside the agency world that there’s a state BLM, and then there are the local field offices. NOLAN HEATH: Right. KAREN BREWSTER: And how a field office interacts with the state level?

NOLAN HEATH: So the field -- the field offices are on-the-ground management of the BLM lands and responsibilities.

The -- and they report to the state office and to the state director, those field managers. And uh, but the state director has his staff that supports him. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: And that’s where the deputy state directors come in. And they’re over the various programs statewide to ensure that the field offices are being -- that they’re all keeping their programs going towards a -- a common purpose. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: And, you know, sorting out between the different field offices' priorities and projects.

And, you know, and then being the advocates with Washington to support the field offices in the state in accomplishing, you know, the purposes of all of the lands and stuff, you know. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: Whether it’s doing the environmental documentation, or permitting different activities on the land and oversighting those activities. Whether it’s taking on projects by BLM to, um, interpret, understand the lands better, um, to protect different resources, things.

I mean, you know, I worked with -- on the mineral side, I worked with people that studied the land to see if there were even mineral potential at all there. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

NOLAN HEATH: Worked with people to determine whether or not mining claims could be patented. Whether or not miners were complying with their terms of their permits for their claims with uh, wildlife, fisheries.

Those archeologists, you know, to make sure that all archeological sites were protected. And that, you know, if streams were impacted that they were being restored to protect the -- KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: -- fisheries and the vegetation on the banks and all of that stuff, you know.

We discovered a strain of dusky geese down in the Columbia -- or not the Columbia Glacier, what’s -- KAREN BREWSTER: By Cordova? NOLAN HEATH: Out of Cordova, yeah. Is that the Columbia Glacier? KAREN BREWSTER: No. That’s out of Valdez. Um.

NOLAN HEATH: Can’t think of the name of it. Anyway. KAREN BREWSTER: I know what you’re talking about. NOLAN HEATH: Bering Glacier. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

NOLAN HEATH: Out of the Bering Glacier. We discovered a strain of fish up out of Nome, a lake north of Nome there. I mean, you know, it’s different.

We were involved in all kinds of different things. You know, we dealt with, um -- in our right of way, we -- you know, one time Congress said, you know, here’s a bunch of money. Transfer these lands to the state out of Fairbanks, along the -- the river there. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: And so, we had to go up and conduct some, uh, hazardous studies to make sure there was no hazardous materials there, and it was clear to transfer those lands to the state.

And the state wanted the -- or the city, I guess, or whoever it was, wanted to preserve that bank as a kind of like a parkland. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: The whole area there.

They wanted to acquire those lands, and talked (Senator Ted) Stevens into giving 'em money to do that. And so, we did all that, transferred the lands to them. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. NOLAN HEATH: You know, just a lot of neat little things that we did.

KAREN BREWSTER: You mentioned archeology, and I was thinking about on the Iditarod Trail, if archeological sites or historic sites were something you guys had to deal with?

NOLAN HEATH: Yes. You know, you have to deal with all of those resources, renewable resources along there. Any time you want to do a project on there, you want to make sure you’re not going to impact archeological. If there is any potential there -- KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: -- you want to make sure that’s covered. If, you know, if there’s any wildlife issues, you know, there are species that are endangered or -- or need to be protected. Or if there’s opportunities to enhance the public’s awareness of wildlife in that area. Or to be able to not impact their habitat and resource -- their food sources, that kind of thing. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: Um, or if you’re crossing streams or whatever that the fish, if there’s fish in those streams, that they’re protected. That you’re not just damaging the fish stream.

You know, wetlands, if you’re crossing wetlands, we dealt with that. Are you creating any kind of an air pollution problems? KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: Is there a lighting or a noise problem you’re creating? KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: Because of the -- what you’re doing? Is it temporary or permanent, you know. Those are all kinds of things you have to consider in an environmental -- KAREN BREWSTER: Right. NOLAN HEATH: -- analysis.

KAREN BREWSTER: Were there any archeological sites along the trail? I mean, there must’ve been historic places? NOLAN HEATH: Sure. Sure. KAREN BREWSTER: Because of the miners.

NOLAN HEATH: And -- and -- and I -- I don’t have off the top of my head any specific archeological site, quote-unquote. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: But I think there were some Native concerns. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: Along there. I know particularly out in the -- like, the village of Knik, there were graves that were of concern. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: We went out there with the archeologists one time, and -- and they showed us where some of those remains were that were in unmarked graves.

KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. So did you guys mark them? NOLAN HEATH: Uh, you know, we worked with the community for them to mark. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: And, you know, provide that protection.

Uh, we wanted to make sure we weren’t gonna impact those. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. NOLAN HEATH: Yeah, so tho -- Yeah, there was concerns.

KAREN BREWSTER: Was there ever any consideration at BLM to restore some of the old roadhouses?

NOLAN HEATH: Um, we would work with the State Historic Preservation Office on which ones of those -- KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: -- would -- Were important to protect or restore or --

KAREN BREWSTER: Well, I was thinking, by the time you were involved, it may have been too late for those buildings? I don’t know. NOLAN HEATH: A lot of -- a lot of the roadhouses were bygones by then. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

NOLAN HEATH: But there were still a few of them around. And I think the state -- you know, Historic Preservation Office, and we -- You know, Bob King was our archeologist, state archeologist. I don’t remember who all of the field office ones were. I could look up their names. But uh.

KAREN BREWSTER: But so, there never -- There was never a project proposed during your time to let’s put money into rebuilding a falling down old roadhouse? NOLAN HEATH: Um, not along the Iditarod Trail that I know of.

KAREN BREWSTER: Hm. It would be an interesting project. NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. I think there were some along the Richardson Highway. KAREN BREWSTER: Yes, there's -- that’s -- yeah, there’s one on -- in Delta Junction. NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. NOLAN HEATH: But I don’t -- I don't remember any along the Iditarod --

KAREN BREWSTER: I was wondering if anybody ever -- NOLAN HEATH: -- Historic Trail. KAREN BREWSTER: -- proposed it, and BLM said, "Oh no, too much money."

NOLAN HEATH: Yeah, well, there is -- there’s always a concern, um, about those. You want to protect those valuable resources, but you don’t want to create unnecessary burdens because, you know, if -- if -- if you’ve got a dozen roadhouses, and you want to protect another one, you know, that becomes a very expensive, long-term project to do it right. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: And so, is it -- do we really want to spend taxpayers’ dollars protecting another roadhouse, or is it better to spend that money doing something else? KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: You know. And that became an issue when we were looking at the Bureau of Mines facilities down in Juneau. Is, do we wanna establish that as sort of a historic property and buildings and facilities? KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: Uh, or not?

You know, because they did away with the Bureau of Mines. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. NOLAN HEATH: And there really was nothing left. They didn’t save anything of it. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, really? NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. And uh.

KAREN BREWSTER: Well, again, in Juneau, where property is a limited commodity, I could see that those buildings, that acreage, lots, wherever they were, would probably be in demand for something else. NOLAN HEATH: There was a lot of people that wanted that little island. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: A lot of people wanted that little two-acre island. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah, so that factors into the way that the decisions -- NOLAN HEATH: Yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: And the Iditarod Trail is probably a little easier? Is there’s not as much demand for some of those lands. I’m not sure.

NOLAN HEATH: Well, it was kinda -- It was kind of an interesting thing, because those buildings were old military buildings transferred from Eagle. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh? NOLAN HEATH: When they had that original mounted troopers out there. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

NOLAN HEATH: And after they took those old buildings down and re-built them on that island. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh. NOLAN HEATH: And so, there were -- there was some history behind those buildings, as well. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. NOLAN HEATH: Uh.

KAREN BREWSTER: Well, and like out in Eagle, they’ve been restoring all the old Fort Egbert buildings. NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. Well, these were some that were -- they had taken down there originally and moved them down there for the Bureau (of Mines). KAREN BREWSTER: Wow.

NOLAN HEATH: Originally, it was the Navy had ’em. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, ok. NOLAN HEATH: Had up there as a coal, uh, storage site. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm. NOLAN HEATH: And then they give it to the Bureau of Mines, and they built it. They moved those buildings there and established their offices there.

KAREN BREWSTER: Hm. Well, and I was going to say, the Iditarod Trail, you’ve got the land ownership issues, but there’s maybe less competition and demand for those lands? And the different uses of those lands?

NOLAN HEATH: Well, in the remote areas, for sure. When you get closer into town here, there’s a lot more competition. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. NOLAN HEATH: And uh --

KAREN BREWSTER: And if minera -- if there’s any mining out there, you know, like if nowadays, they found minerals in Iditarod and wanted to re-establish that, that would have -- the -- would the trail have to be factored into that?

NOLAN HEATH: Yes. Yeah, all -- that would all be factored in, or you know, there was -- There’d be a lot of environmental issues that would come to play.

I mean, you know, we see it in a -- in a lot of projects that are proposed nowadays as, you know, the environmental issues are paramount. KAREN BREWSTER: Right.

NOLAN HEATH: In terms of the decision-making process.

And uh, you know, we just live in a culture now that’s so much more knowledgeable and sensitive to environmental impacts. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. And that -- NOLAN HEATH: And, uh.

KAREN BREWSTER: Just having a -- a be -- a trail be -- having a historic designation falls lower in the decision-making than the environmental impacts?

NOLAN HEATH: Uh, well, I mean, I think they go hand in hand. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. NOLAN HEATH: I mean, I don’t -- I wouldn’t say it’s lower. I mean, it's -- it -- it is a designation, but with that designation, you gotta consider all those other things, too. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

NOLAN HEATH: And uh -- And, in fact, the -- the consideration of those other environmental concerns is what enhances the historic nature of that trail. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. NOLAN HEATH: So it’s -- it's -- I mean, they go together. KAREN BREWSTER: Ok.

NOLAN HEATH: So I -- you know, I wouldn’t say one is lower or higher. It's -- KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. NOLAN HEATH: It’s -- it's part of it. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm. NOLAN HEATH: It’s part of the purpose of it.

KAREN BREWSTER: Ok. Well, I really appreciate your time today. NOLAN HEATH: Well, I appreciate the opportunity to share a few thoughts.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah, well, are there any other, um, things you wa -- you -- memories or experiences or things that when I brought up the idea of doing this interview, you want to share?

NOLAN HEATH: Uh, I -- I would just thank all the people that have been involved in this over the years. Um, thank all of the agencies for their cooperation and communication with this.

You know, as with a lot of our national designations, I mean, these are -- this is a heritage of America that we’re trying to preserve and enhance and protect. And -- and, you know, just grateful for all those people that are willing to chip in and help out with that.

KAREN BREWSTER: And how do you feel about your role in it?

NOLAN HEATH: Awesome. I mean, I -- You know, it’s -- it's -- I really look back on my career with BLM and, you know, think that I got -- I had a good career.

You know, I had a lot of neat opportunities to work on a lot of neat things, and one of those was the Iditarod Trail system, and um -- But, you know, it was one of many other things. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: And I’ve always counted it a blessing to be a part of the public lands, and working with, um, things that are important to America.

KAREN BREWSTER: Did you ever get to go out to -- on the ground of the trail? NOLAN HEATH: Yeah. Yeah. I’ve been -- I've been to Seward at Mile Zero. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. NOLAN HEATH: I’ve been along the Eagle River up to the --

KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, Crow Pass? NOLAN HEATH: Crow Pass -- KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. NOLAN HEATH: -- part of that. I’ve been on parts of it over in Hope. Uh, and along in there. Uh, I’ve been out to the Rohn cabin. I’ve been to Nome. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: You know, so I’ve been on several parts of it through the years.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. So you had some opportunity --? Ev -- Even though you were the State Deputy Director, you had some opportunities to go out in the field? NOLAN HEATH: Yeah, and some of that was on my own. KAREN BREWSTER: Mm-hm.

NOLAN HEATH: You know. Just, you know, being out in the public lands. And part of it was, you know, helping the field people and, you know, learning so that I could be a better representative at Washington for their behalf.

KAREN BREWSTER: All right. Well, great. Well, thank you very much. NOLAN HEATH: Well, thank you.