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Winton Weyapuk, Jr., Interview 1

Winton "Utuktaaq" Weyapuk, Jr. was interviewed on February 25, 2008 by Hajo Eicken and Matthew Druckenmiller in Wales, Alaska. In this interview, Winton shares his observations of the year's ice conditions and how things are changing. He talks about the formation of slush ice, the presence of pressure ridges, the effect of wind and current on ice conditions, changes in the timing of freeze-up and break-up, the rapid movement of the ice, and the presence of thin ice. He also talks about the effect of tides on the ice, and ice safety.

Digital Asset Information

Archive #: Oral History 2013-25-23

Project: Sea Ice in Northern Alaska
Date of Interview: Feb 25, 2008
Narrator(s): Winton "Utuktaaq" Weyapuk, Jr.
Interviewer(s): Matthew Druckenmiller, Dr. Hajo Eicken
Transcriber: Denali Whiting
Location of Interview:
Funding Partners:
Bureau of Ocean Energy Management, Coastal Marine Institute, North Pacific Research Board
Alternate Transcripts
There is no alternate transcript for this interview.
There is no slideshow for this person.

After clicking play, click on a section to navigate the audio or video clip.


Movement of the sea ice

Places where the sea ice hangs around longer, and breaking off of shorefast ice

Formation of slush ice

Determining the stability and safety of shorefast ice, and observation of pressure ridges

Changes in how people are using the sea ice

Changes in the timing of freeze-up

Effect of wind and current on ice conditions, and tidal response

Movement of ice onto shore

Change in snowfall and the weather

Ideal ice conditions for hunting and traveling

Selecting boat launch location

Multi-year ice

Preferred winds for creating ideal ice conditions

Changes in the slush ice period

Writing up a report about observations from different communities

Thin ice

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HAJO EICKEN: We talked about the spring of 2007 already when we were up in May. If you can sort of -- from what you can recollect now, just go through how the rest of the ice season panned out, you know, until the summer and then how -- how the ice came back in Fall.

From a summary perspective compared to previous years, say. Or -- or -- I mean, I think one of the things we’re interested in is -- was -- was, you know, was -- did the ice leave earlier or -- or --

I recall you mentioned earlier about, you know, how -- how easy or difficult it is to get access to -- to ice with, you know, with walrus on there. So -- WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Mm-hm. HAJO EICKEN: Any --

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Yeah. And it did leave earlier, and people were really keeping an eye out for the pack ice m -- moving from the south, you know, basically.

And it’s going by really quickly. HAJO EICKEN: Mm. WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: These currents were really strong by early, mid-May. HAJO EICKEN: Mm-hm.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Like it usually is. The current really picks up once the ice really starts melting and -- HAJO EICKEN: Hmm.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: -- moving, so. There -- there are some pictures here I took in May but -- there’s these walrus pictures.

And that -- you know, the ice went by really quickly and some of the hunters said, you know, they had to go kinda a bit further than usual -- HAJO EICKEN: Hm. WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: -- to chase it north. When -- when they see pack ice coming by. HAJO EICKEN: Hm.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Get in their boat and chase it north to catch up to it. And hunt on it for a while and then come -- come home.

HAJO EICKEN: So are there areas where -- where you do find ice hanging out longer north of here?

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: There. (noise of map being moved across the table) Kinda toward the Russian coast. HAJO EICKEN: Mm. Mm. Okay.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Or north of the Diomedes. HAJO EICKEN: Mm.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: And it seems like it hangs -- hangs around longer up here towards Shishmaref. HAJO EICKEN: Mm-hmm, mm.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: And after all the shore ice broke off and drifted away, maybe a week, about a week later, a little bit of it came back with the north -- north wind. HAJO EICKEN: Mm. WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: But not a whole lot.

Sometimes in the past after shore ice broke off, you know, and then it all drifted north and we got a big north wind, you know, a lot of ice would come -- HAJO EICKEN: Oh. WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: -- come back down.

But last spring there was -- when we had a strong wind, northerly wind, after break-up there wasn’t a whole lot of ice that came back. And the ice that came back was small, rotting and -- HAJO EICKEN: Mm-hmm.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: -- not very good for -- Not very good for hunting, I mean, because there’s not many seals around that type of ice. HAJO EICKEN: Mm-hmm.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: And I -- Like I said, earlier this fall we started with a lot of slush. Just mainly slush, not too much young ice or new ice and -- or pancake ice -- HAJO EICKEN: Mm, mm-hmm.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: And slush berms kinda formed several times and re-build up with -- from the wave action, and the waves would wash the slush berm away and then build it back up again. HAJO EICKEN: Mm-hmm.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Basically, that’s really all we saw until the ice came in from the south, southwest and it froze in place.

HAJO EICKEN: Mm, mm-hmm. So that was basically when -- So this ice, this stable ice out there now, formed when that ice came in from the southwest?

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Yeah. Before that, you know, the slush had been kinda coming and going.

HAJO EICKEN: So what -- what determines whether you get slush or more young and pancake ice? Is that something in the weather or -- WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Hmm -- HAJO EICKEN: Based on your experience?

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Yeah, temperatures, I think, may have a lot to do with it. HAJO EICKEN: Mm-hm.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Could kinda tell by how much frost smoke there was, too, because -- HAJO EICKEN: Hm.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: There was -- there wasn’t a lot of frost smoke until it -- when it started getting colder. HAJO EICKEN: Hm, hm, hm, mm. WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: ‘Til below zero.

HAJO EICKEN: And then the landfast ice that’s out there now, the shorefast ice, is that stable already -- WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Yeah. HAJO EICKEN: -- for the people to go out on?

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Yeah, yup. That’s stable.

HAJO EICKEN: There’s that big -- or I guess we can even see it from here, that big ridge out there, do you -- WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Mm-hm. HAJO EICKEN: -- do you know when that formed?

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: It was sometimes last month. Maybe mid-January. HAJO EICKEN: Hm. WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Around the twentieth or so.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Did people go out on the ice in early January? Or was it just -- just in late January when people started to -- to go out on the landfast ice?

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: You’re asking about the timing or -- MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Well, I -- I’m asking when the people considered it stable -- WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Mm. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: -- enough to go out onto the ice.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: As long as it's thick enough to walk on and there’s ridges out there to, you know, kinda anchor it in place to it won't break off and drift away.

Usually, that’s what they look for is the ridges building right along the edge of the shorefast ice to anchor it in place.

And then that -- they -- they don’t go too far out yet while the ridges are forming. They’re usually just little ways from the beach when they make their fishing holes.

HAJO EICKEN: Mm. So how would you -- I mean, right now if you look out, that’s already enough ridging to be safe, you would say? WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Mm-hmm.

HAJO EICKEN: And is there -- is there any way, I mean, is there -- is there sort of a -- how do you tell? I mean, I always wonder about that. Because in Barrow it’s often quite tricky to --

You know, I mean, some ridges that are big enough, you know for sure they’re grounded, and, you know, you can see it with the dirt and stuff, but --

And with a lot of them, you’re never sure whether they’re grounded or not. I mean, is -- is there a way to tell here at all? Or --

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Yeah, there’s -- there is. The ridges are really small one, that’s where ice first forms. Maybe, I don't know, five or six feet high. HAJO EICKEN: Mm-hm.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: And then when they get twice as high or so, when the -- I guess, that's kinda when they start thinking they might be safe enough. HAJO EICKEN: Okay. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Mm-hm.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: And I think people nowadays aren’t experienced as they used to be in the past. Hardly anybody goes out there to hunt seals nowadays -- HAJO EICKEN: Mm-hm. WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: --in the middle of winter like -- HAJO EICKEN: Mm. WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: -- like they used to, so -- HAJO EICKEN: Mm-hm.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Maybe lack of experience nowadays is one thing that keeps people from -- or prevents people from using the ice as much as they used to -- HAJO EICKEN: Mm. Mm-hm. Mm-hm. WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: -- long ago.

HAJO EICKEN: Mm. Yeah, and -- and -- and do you think it’s efficient -- I mean, how -- You really have to be out there to sort of wa -- and watch things as they happen to be able to -- WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Mm-hm. HAJO EICKEN: -- tell.

But then this, I mean, would you say that this past Fall’s been kind of like the other previous Falls or was it very different from the way freeze-up came?

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: I think it's pretty similar. Timing was pretty close, mainly. That’s the way it’s been the past three or four years or so. HAJO EICKEN: Yeah.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Well, with -- Well, with ice like this, is there any way that a mixture of -- of wind and currents could -- could destabilize this and have it break away? WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Yeah, yeah, it’s possible.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: I -- I know in Barrow I've heard them talk about how a -- if you have an onshore wind that it -- that it raises the sea level and it can -- it can -- WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Yeah. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: -- uplift the ice. WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Uh-huh.


MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: And similarly, with an offshore wind you could have a lowering of -- of -- WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Uh-huh. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: -- of the sea level, which can also crack the ice.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Yeah. Yeah, that -- that same thing happens here. You really notice. You have a southerly wind, tide, and the water level rises and then there’s seepage right along the beach. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Mm.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Shore ice lifts up and then water seeps in.

And then when we have a north -- northeasterly wind like today, you see the ice lower.

The people who do spear fishing most readily notice. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Mm-hm.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: They say it’s too shallow, you know, when it -- when the tide goes out.

HAJO EICKEN: Mm-hm. Yeah, yeah. Hm. Yeah, because I -- I think last -- not this winter but the previous winter you were saying that there was a bit of a push first with the high tide. WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Mm-hmm.

HAJO EICKEN: Where the ice came up from shore that are -- WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Mm-hm. HAJO EICKEN: -- wasn't there.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Yeah, it wasn’t really that dramatically. It was mostly thin, new ice and slush. It’s like -- It wasn’t like a thicker shore -- shorefast ice moving up, but -- HAJO EICKEN: Mm, okay.

Has it ever happened that ice has come up quite a ways onto the shore?

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Yeah, maybe last time was in 2004. 2003 or 2004. HAJO EICKEN: Mm-hm.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: In January. January or February. Maybe -- maybe late January.

The tide really came up and then it moved the shore on -- shore ice up, I don't know, maybe, twenty, thirty feet.

HAJO EICKEN: Hm. But there’s never been any -- any damage to any of the houses or anything? WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: No.

HAJO EICKEN: And snow-wise, is this winter pretty much average? Or more snow than normal?

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Yeah, it’s about average. It was a little slow in coming. It took a while to -- HAJO EICKEN: Mm.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: -- accumulate. But, yeah, it’s about average for this time of year. There was quite a bit of clear ice all over for a while. HAJO EICKEN: Hm.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: And we did get some rain, wet weather. HAJO EICKEN: Oh, okay. WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: During the early winter.

HAJO EICKEN: Hm. And that rain, I mean, that’s -- that’s not unusual though or -- or abnormal. You’ve had that in the past where --

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Yeah, it's not unusual.

HAJO EICKEN: So what would the -- So, I mean, from your perspective, what would be the best sort of -- the best ice year, what would that look like?

Sort of from -- you know, that -- that really provides you with ideal conditions for hunting or traveling? I mean what -- when would -- when would the ice form? How would it set up? When would it go out?

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Probably, having it -- pack ice start -- starting to show up maybe in October, in late October and then -- HAJO EICKEN: Mm.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: If we could see some of the pack ice coming in from the north with the seals. HAJO EICKEN: Mm. Mm.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: And then the shorefast ice freezing in place by November, maybe. Late November.

Freezing in place being solidly frozen by December, and then that would probably give people more time to do ice fishing. HAJO EICKEN: Mm. Mm. Yeah.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: To get the shorefast ice frozen earlier. HAJO EICKEN: Mm.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: A month earlier. And then maybe having break-up like late May, early June. HAJO EICKEN: Mm-hm, mm-hm, mm-hm.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: A lot of hunters wait until the shore ice has broken off, you know, 'cause it’s easier to haul the meat into shore. HAJO EICKEN: Oh, okay. Mm-hm.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Rather than having to unload it at the edge of the shorefast ice. HAJO EICKEN: Mm-hm.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Hauling it up by snow -- snowmobile or --

HAJO EICKEN: And people put in -- the ideal spot to put the boats in is where -- was last year right off town here or is there a better -- I mean, how do you --

How do you pick the spot where you actually have -- haul out the boats? You know, while the shore ice is still stable. Is that just closest by?

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Yeah, look for spot where we don’t have to do much trail making or -- HAJO EICKEN: Hm.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: You know, busting down the pressure ridges.

And a good, flat spot near the edge of the shorefast ice where we could pull up a whale or other animals and -- and build a ramp into the -- HAJO EICKEN: Hm, mm-hm. WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: -- the lead.

Really, that’s one main thing we look for is a good, flat area where we could pull a whale up on, you know, if we get one. That’s usually one of the prerequisites for a good launch -- launch area. HAJO EICKEN: Mm, mm-hm.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: And then behind that, some ridges where we could store the boats near, you know, ridges that are anchored so the boat can be secure and won’t --

You know, if the ice happens to break up that ridge -- an anchor ridge would help to protect the boat.

HAJO EICKEN: Yeah. Yeah, hm. And the ice usually is thick enough to -- to be able to haul whales on shore or -- ?

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Yeah. Yeah, some places -- some places that isn’t -- lots of places there might be a lot of not very thick, new ice. HAJO EICKEN: Mm, hm.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: And you kinda need thick first year ice or a multi-year ice shelf to support the weight of a whale.

That’s another thing we look for is ice that’s white. HAJO EICKEN: Mm-hm. WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Thick and flat.

HAJO EICKEN: Have you had any multi-year ice in the shorefast ice in recent years here?

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Mm, some. Not a whole lot. HAJO EICKEN: Hm.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Yeah, Faye (Ongtowasruk) and Pete (Sereadlook) were talking about that when Igor (Krupnik) was here.

What I used to see, that blue ice out there on the shorefast ice when we were -- we'd get some of it for drinking water. HAJO EICKEN: Oh, mm-hm. WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Yeah, yeah.

HAJO EICKEN: So that was possible under -- doing that on a regular basis earlier on? WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Yeah, yeah. Pretty regular. Maybe not every year, but --

When I was a kid, you know, every now and then we’d -- we’d see those -- that kind of ice out here. You know, it’d look blue and -- HAJO EICKEN: Hm, hm. Yeah.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: You know, different. People would go out there and cut some of it off to haul home.

HAJO EICKEN: Igor had mentioned that somebody said that you used to have another trail out to sort of a different spot for whaling or something. Do you recall anything about that when he was here or -- ?

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Yeah, sometimes we have one up here below the airport runway or that navigation light up there. HAJO EICKEN: Oh, okay.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Yeah. We do like to have it further up here, you know, 'cause there’s less noise. Snowmachines, etc. HAJO EICKEN: Oh. WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Planes. HAJO EICKEN: Mm.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Hajo asked about ideal conditions. Are there ideal times of the year where you prefer certain winds?

I -- I know there are, but like is there a different wind that you prefer earlier in the winter as opposed to -- to later in the year that would be the ideal conditions for -- for ice formation and hunting and -- ?

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Mm. Not really. I think the -- look for favorable wind conditions for forming leads mainly.

And not -- not as much as formation of the shore ice, but opening the leads north, north wind. Maybe a little bit of a northeasterly wind, northerly wind would keep the lead open out here in front of the village. I think that’s mainly, well, the type of wind we --

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Is it usually -- you mentioned this year the southwest wind it brought in the -- WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Uh-huh. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: -- the shorefast ice. Is that -- is that the process that usually --

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: No, usually it moves south with northerly winds and then -- MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Oh, okay.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: And it just creeps along that shore here.

And then, you know, sometimes there’s some floe -- floe bergs or ice floes, you know, that come from up north.

And it’s usually the way that shore ice forms, you know, it just -- that carries slush, new ice, some of the floe bergs get grounded out here and then the new ice forms between the beach and those floe bergs. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Mm-hm.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Usually that -- that seems to be how it would form in the past. Gradually from the beach to the pressure ridges.

Or sometimes new ice, ice floes are -- they kind of start freezing in place when they get to shore before the pressure ridges start forming.

And long as, you know, it’s kinda frozen in place then -- then the ridges can start forming out there.

Otherwise, you know, it just -- MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Yeah. WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: -- the -- the wind moves and breaks up, and moves out the ice pretty easily.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Mm, and that’s what happened this year with -- with the slush, it just kept going out?

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Yeah. Yeah, I kept thinking, well, maybe this time the ice will -- the shore ice will freeze in place but -- but that next morning it’d be -- be all gone.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: That -- that -- that’ll likely show up pretty good in our -- our webcam. WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Mm-hm.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: You know, that you can animate the -- the webcam photos to see like a movie of the year. WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Mm-hm.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: It’ll be interesting to see if you can see that slush come in and keep going out. WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Mm-hm.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: You -- you haven’t seen that for this year? I mean, it was just last year that you had -- HAJO EICKEN: No, no. Yup, yup. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: -- the animations.

HAJO EICKEN: Yeah, that’s interesting to -- sort of going through your notes, you know, how there’s this really long period where ice forms and then, as you say, it goes out again, new ice comes back in. Sometimes it’s slush, sometimes, you know, it’s sort of young ice. Just that transition period is -- is quite long.

But would people still go out with a boat in between? Like let’s say you have some ice forming and then that ice goes out again, would people go out with the boat still to hunt? WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Mm-hm. Yeah.

HAJO EICKEN: Yeah, that’s -- actually, that’s interesting.

Because in Barrow, from what I understand, you know, as soon as the first time that ice forms, you know, I don’t know, what like sometime in late October now, early November, with even just a bit of slush, that pretty much shuts down everything. WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Mm-hm.

HAJO EICKEN: Even though now in Barrow it takes them ‘til, like this year for instance -- You were up there, when was that? Somewhere in the middle of December?

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Yeah, I was up there December 12th, I think.

HAJO EICKEN: And -- and there wasn’t any shorefast ice in Barrow yet, right?

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: No, no, there’s some -- some young ice all along the coast, but it was -- it was just floating around. HAJO EICKEN: Mm-hm. Mm-hm.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: I mean, it wasn’t even touching the beach in most places.

And there was absolutely no -- there was no ridges anywhere. Except north of the point, you know, on the Beaufort side, there was some ice in there but --

HAJO EICKEN: Well, maybe -- I -- I think that already gives us a good idea of things.

What -- what I was going to do was sort of summarize some of this, and then I guess there’s sort of several different things that we can work on. I mean, I’ll send you this summary.

I -- I -- I think I've already sent you the one for your observations just as a Word file, but I -- I don’t quite remember. But I’ll definitely do that again.

And then I’ll also send you what Joe Leavitt had observed in Barrow. WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Mm-hm. HAJO EICKEN: That one’s sort of written up like that, as well.

But we’re -- we’re starting to compile those from different sides. I mean, Igor is working with somebody in Gambell. Leonard Apangalook. WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Mm-hm.

HAJO EICKEN: And so we’re -- we’re quite interested in -- in putting together these different observations from these different locations and just seeing how sort of the different parts of the season vary as you go north or south.

And so what I’d like to do is basically write a paper about that linking some of the satellite information that we have with -- with the observations on the ground basically with you and Joe Leavitt.

And -- and if we use Gambell, Leonard Apangalook as well as several others as co-authors. And so that would be something that would be great to discuss in October, as well, when you come over to -- to Fairbanks. WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Mm-hm.

HAJO EICKEN: But then, you know, Igor mentioned -- I mean, if you want to write up any of this on your own, I think that would be great, too.

And -- and I’d be happy to help in whatever form, but I -- I'm -- you know, I mean, you know more about this than any of us do so, you know, feel free to take -- take the lead on that. That would be good.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: I think one thing I didn’t write in my notes that I sent to you is comments from some people that once this shorefast ice froze in place, it took long time to thicken. I mean, they’re saying it was thin for a long time now. HAJO EICKEN: Hm, mm-hm.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: You know, not --not freezing, not thick, getting thicker pretty fast ‘cause --

What some of the fisherman commented on was some places it was, you know, pretty thin still.

HAJO EICKEN: And this was when? Roughly. WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Maybe a couple weeks ago. HAJO EICKEN: Oh, okay. Hm.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: So, I don’t know. One young man I was talking to, you know, mentioned that to me. HAJO EICKEN: Mm-hm.

WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: He made several fishing holes and -- HAJO EICKEN: Mm-hm. WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: -- he was saying the ice was -- to his view, was pretty thin. HAJO EICKEN: Hmm. Hm. WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: And not growing thicker. HAJO EICKEN: Hm. Hm. WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Or getting thicker very slowly.

HAJO EICKEN: Hm. Hm. Well, we’ll -- we’ll go to the same spots where we were last year so we’ll know -- we’ll know what the, you know, what the thickness is. And we’ll take the cores and look at those as well. That is interesting.

So -- so that person, when he went out, how -- how -- how do they make their holes? WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: With a tuuq, chipper.

HAJO EICKEN: Oh, okay. So in a way it’s good if it’s not too thick. WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Yeah. Yeah.

HAJO EICKEN: Huh. And then do they keep the same holes open and come and revisit them -- WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Yeah, mm-hm. HAJO EICKEN: -- over -- over several days or several weeks or -- WINTON WEYAPUK, JR.: Mm-hm.

HAJO EICKEN: Interesting. Good. Well, Matt, can you think of anything else or --

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: No. Not really. May -- maybe tomorrow after we -- we're out there. HAJO EICKEN: Yeah, once we’ve been out there. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Yeah, to see it.