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Sally Gallahorn
Sally Gallahorn

Sally Rotman Gallahorn was interviewed on February 9, 2018 by Karen Brewster and Martha Siikauraq Whiting in Sally's office upstairs from Rotman's Store in Kotzebue, Alaska. In this interview, Sally talks about growing up at Niliq where her father, Louis Rotman, operated a store, what the community was like, who lived there, and who is buried at the Niliq cemetery. She also talks about her father's muskrat fur buying operation, upriver fur collecting trips, the packaging and shipping of furs, and the values given to muskrat furs. Finally, Sally discusses the history of Rotman's stores at Niliq, Selawik and Kotzebue, taking over the family business, and the hard work that is required to run a store.

Digital Asset Information

Archive #: Oral History 2018-04-05

Project: Land Use and Environmental Change, Selawik National Wildlife Refuge
Date of Interview: Feb 9, 2018
Narrator(s): Sally Gallahorn
Interviewer(s): Karen Brewster, Martha Siikauraq Whiting
Transcriber: Karen Brewster
Location of Interview:
Funding Partners:
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
Alternate Transcripts
There is no alternate transcript for this interview.
Slideshow
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Sections

Personal and family background

Memories of growing up at Niliq

The store at Niliq being closed and moving to Selawik

The muskrat fur trade

Traditional uses of mukrat, and selling fur of other furbearers

People and facilities at Niliq

Games played as a child

Rotman Store in Kotzebue and Selawik

Her father's collecting trips up river to buy muskrat furs

Moving a log building from Selawik to Kotzebue, and construction of Rotman's Store in Kotzebue

Families who were muskrat hunting upriver, and Sally's and her parents' Iñupiaq names

Learning to work hard and run the family business

Types of items sold at the store in Niliq, getting supplies up there, and her last visit to Niliq

Competition for fur buying among various store owners in the region

Cemetery at Niliq

Childhood memories of Selawik, and hosting guests in rooms above the store in Kotzebue

History of Rotman's Store, and running it herself

End of the muskrat fur trade

Challenges of running a store in Selawik

Preparing muskrat hides, and buying and selling the fur

Value of muskrat furs

Waterfowl hunting and berry picking at Niliq

Going on fur collecting trips upriver with her father

More background on her father, Louis Rotman, and his coming to the United States

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Transcript

KAREN BREWSTER: Okay, this is Karen Brewster, and today is February 9th, 2018. And I'm here in Kotzebue with Sally Rotman. SIIKAURAQ WHITING: It's Sally Gallahorn. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, I'm sorry. Sally Gallahorn. Used to be Rotman. SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Yes. SALLY GALLAHORN: Sally Gallahorn Rotman, uh-huh. KAREN BREWSTER: Uh-huh. Upstairs above Rotman's Store. And also Siikauraq Whiting is here. And this is for the Selawik National Wildlife Refuge project. So Sally, thank you very much for having time to talk to us today. SALLY GALLAHORN: Well, you're welcome. That's nice of -- KAREN BREWSTER: So -- SALLY GALLAHORN: -- enjoy it.

KAREN BREWSTER: So, just to get started so people know a little bit about you, can you just tell us, you know, when and where you were born? SALLY GALLAHORN: Uh-huh. I was born in Kiana. Really in Okok Point. I guess it's a few miles from Kiana. I don't even know. That's where we lived for a couple of years, I think. And we had a store there, but then from there we moved to Selawik. We sold the store, I think. I think. I don't know.

KAREN BREWSTER: And what year were you born? SALLY GALLAHORN: '31. KAREN BREWSTER: Okay. And so you don't have any memories of the sto -- Kiana time? SALLY GALLAHORN: I do. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, you do? SALLY GALLAHORN: I mean, but, we were not there very long, you know. We -- we opened the store and ran it for awhile, and then I think my dad sold it.

KAREN BREWSTER: And your dad was -- what was his first name? SALLY GALLAHORN: Louie R -- Louis Rotman. KAREN BREWSTER: Okay. And your mother? SALLY GALLAHORN: Clara Rotman.

KAREN BREWSTER: And what family was your mom from? SALLY GALLAHORN: From -- she was from Kiana. Her mom was from Kiana and her dad was from New York. And he came up for -- he wasn't a miner. There was a lot of mining going on, but I think he came up as an accountant for some mining. And then he never did go back. He lived in Kiana and I don't remember him too much. You know, he was -- All I remember he used to sing a lot and, you know -- SIIKAURAQ WHITING: Nice: KAREN BREWSTER: Nice. And what was your mother's maiden name? Or -- SALLY GALLAHORN: Uh, gosh. KAREN BREWSTER: Do you know? SALLY GALLAHORN: I should know. Maybe I'll think of it. KAREN BREWSTER: Or what -- I was thinking or which Iñupiaq family she came from? SALLY GALLAHORN: Her mom was from Kiana, related to -- I forg -- KAREN BREWSTER: That's okay. SALLY GALLAHORN: Uh, I wonder if there's anything -- (pause in recording as Sally looks in her desk drawers)

KAREN BREWSTER: Okay. So your mother's mother's first name was Hope? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Is that what you said? SALLY GALLAHORN: Uh-huh. KAREN BREWSTER: Okay. Okay. SALLY GALLAHORN: Levy. I mean, her married name was Levy. KAREN BREWSTER: Okay. SALLY GALLAHORN: William Levy was her -- my mom's dad. KAREN BREWSTER: Dad. Okay, great. That helps a lot. See, you did remember. SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. I knew it would come to me. KAREN BREWSTER: So -- Oops, it keeps falling off you (referring to microphone attached to Sally's jacket). It doesn't want to stay. SALLY GALLAHORN: I better not move.

KAREN BREWSTER: -- come off. Okay. Okay. So, do you know why your father came up here in the first place? Why he came to Kiana? SALLY GALLAHORN: He came from -- where was he from now? Oh. He -- I think he came to -- was it Barrow? Anyway, he was a fur buyer. KAREN BREWSTER: Okay. SALLY GALLAHORN: I think he got a job buying fur. And that's how he got up here.

KAREN BREWSTER: Okay. And you have brothers and sisters? SALLY GALLAHORN: I have one brother and one -- Yvonne is my sister. KAREN BREWSTER: And what was your brother's name? SALLY GALLAHORN: Seymour Rotman.

KAREN BREWSTER: Okay. So what do you first remember about Niliq? SALLY GALLAHORN: Oh, what do I remember about it? We were right on the river there. And I remember -- the one thing I remember is that we -- you know, the ice would freeze and we'd want to go skating, you know, on the edge. And we fell in the water. I always remember that. And there's elders -- there was elders living across from us, and they'd be hollering at us to, you know, go home. And they didn't want us there. And so -- but, I mean, we got out of the water. You know, it wasn't that deep. I mean we weren't way out. But, that's what I remember.

SIIKAURAQ WHITING: Do you remember where the name Niliq come from? Or was -- Somebody said it was short for another -- another name. SALLY GALLAHORN: Ooh. SIIKAURAQ WHITING: Do you remember? SALLY GALLAHORN: I don't know. SIIKAURAQ WHITING: It's always been Niliq that you can remember? SALLY GALLAHORN: Uh-huh, that's all I remember. SIIKAURAQ WHITING: Okay.

KAREN BREWSTER: You said there were the elders living across. Do you remember -- SALLY GALLAHORN: Across the river. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah, do you remember the names of all the families who lived at Niliq when you were there? Or some of them? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. Let's see. Ballots. There were Ballots. Walter Ballot. But I can't think of his dad -- dad's name. And I know their Eskimo name, like -- KAREN BREWSTER: That's good. That's okay. SALLY GALLAHORN: There's Piŋuksraq, but I don't know how you spell them. KAREN BREWSTER: That's okay. We'll figure that out later. SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. And Olsons. There were a lot of people that were -- that I remember, you know. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. SALLY GALLAHORN: Elders there.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. So was it a pretty big community? SALLY GALLAHORN: No, it wasn't. Maybe -- I don't think there was even two hundred people. KAREN BREWSTER: Okay. SALLY GALLAHORN: But they -- I think a lot of them would live out of Niliq, you know, at camps.

SIIKAURAQ WHITING: So, you mentioned you were skating. What other things did you do at Niliq that you remember? SALLY GALLAHORN: We'd go skating, and what else would we do? Oh, they had -- everybody had dogs, you know. And we'd be riding with, you know, two or three dogs. Riding with our friends that had dogs. And going for dogteam rides, and -- There was a lot of -- Then we'd go with the old -- older women go -- they'd go set snares. And we'd go with them for like rabbit, ptarmigan. And then go -- go look at their snares. And they'd be close to town, 'cause, you know, Niliq was -- everything was close by, I guess. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm-mm. SIIKAURAQ WHITING: And when you say "close to town," you're talking about Selawik? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. No. Yeah, Selawik, yeah.

SIIKAURAQ WHITING: And what kind of houses did people live in at that time? SALLY GALLAHORN: At that time, they had like -- some had log ca -- log cabins. But a lot -- And some had -- I don't know if you call them igloos or what, they -- some of them had, you know, with the sod -- SIIKAURAQ WHITING: Like a sod house? SALLY GALLAHORN: Hm-mm. Sod houses. A few.

KAREN BREWSTER: So how old were you when you moved to Niliq? SALLY GALLAHORN: Uh. KAREN BREWSTER: About? SALLY GALLAHORN: I was young. Maybe -- Before school. KAREN BREWSTER: So like five, six, something like that? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. Maybe four or five. KAREN BREWSTER: Okay. SALLY GALLAHORN: Then we moved. I remember going with a dog -- we went with a dogteam from Niliq to Selawik. My dad hired two or three teams. We were closing, you know. He was closing the store and we rode to Selawik with a dogteam. It took all day, I think.

KAREN BREWSTER: Hm-mm. Do you remember what year that was he closed in Niliq? SALLY GALLAHORN: It had to be when I was real -- You know, before I started school, so maybe '29 or '28. KAREN BREWSTER: You mean '39 or -- ? SALLY GALLAHORN: No, see I was born in '31. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. SALLY GALLAHORN: So, oh yeah, after it would be. So it would be probably in the -- oh, couple of years after. KAREN BREWSTER: Okay. SALLY GALLAHORN: I was -- were, you know, after we lived there.

KAREN BREWSTER: Do you know why he closed the store in Niliq? SALLY GALLAHORN: Because there -- everybody -- a lot of people would spend their summers in Selawik and it was a bigger town. Like all those people, you know, would go to Selawik just for, I don't know, shopping and -- I think. KAREN BREWSTER: And did he keep going up there for fur trading after he closed that store? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. I think we used to go up like muskrat season time. I know we went up the -- way up the river, and they called it "collecting." Like you'd outfit them, you know, groceries, before they went to all their camps. And then they'd -- I think we had two boats and they'd fill everything with groceries, you know, so that -- 'cause by then nobody had anything, 'cause they stayed there the whole spring, you know. And then he'd collect their -- their charges with muskrats and then they'd shop again for -- with their furs that they -- KAREN BREWSTER: So had he given them a credit? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Before they left? SALLY GALLAHORN: Before they left. KAREN BREWSTER: Okay. So they paid their debt? SALLY GALLAHORN: They paid their debt, and then they'd have -- they'd get a lot of muskrats. And they'd have lots to spend on, you know, groceries.

SIIKAURAQ WHITING: Do you remember -- do you remember where your dad sold the muskrats to? SALLY GALLAHORN: I remember the fur -- the fur buyers that would come up. Lot of fur buyers would come up, I know. But, he just -- he'd sell them wherever he could get the best price. It seems like it was always to -- to Seattle somewhere. He never seemed to sell them to the fur buyers that came up. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm. Where did -- where did those fur buyers come from? SALLY GALLAHORN: From different -- I guess, from different places -- KAREN BREWSTER: They -- they -- SALLY GALLAHORN: -- from the states. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, they didn't come from Seattle? SALLY GALLAHORN: Hm-mm. There were some from Seattle. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh. SALLY GALLAHORN: I think.

SIIKAURAQ WHITING: Do you remember how much you -- those furs were worth? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah, I remember there'd be sometimes they'd start out -- I think they were -- the highest they were, the muskrats, probably were five or six dollars each, you know. When it got -- when they were buying them so much, the fur companies. KAREN BREWSTER: So the fur companies paid your dad five or six dollars per skin? SALLY GALLAHORN: No, he paid the -- I don't know how much they paid. KAREN BREWSTER: He paid the trappers -- SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: -- five to six dollars? SALLY GALLAHORN: Uh-huh. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh. SALLY GALLAHORN: I mean, that was the highest. you know. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. Yeah, I'm wondering how much -- SALLY GALLAHORN: But -- KAREN BREWSTER: -- he sold them for to the fur buyers? SALLY GALLAHORN: But I really don't know. No, we didn't really pay attention.

SIIKAURAQ WHITING: Do you remember what your dad said what those furs were being used for in the states? Were they for clothes or -- What -- what were the -- SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah, I think for clothes. Like muskrats, mink, fox. KAREN BREWSTER: For coats and things? SALLY GALLAHORN: Uh-huh. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh. SALLY GALLAHORN: I think so. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. 'Cause it seems like there was quite a demand for muskrat fur. SALLY GALLAHORN: Muskrats. Yeah, there was. KAREN BREWSTER: So what were -- yeah, we're trying to -- wondering what they were using them for? SALLY GALLAHORN: Hm-mm. I'm sure it was -- what would they use them for? I think it was clothes. KAREN BREWSTER: Okay. SALLY GALLAHORN: 'Cause they probably sell them all over. I know, like Canada and places like that. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm-mm.

SIIKAURAQ WHITING: So, the people that were selling their muskrats, they were also making muskrat soup and -- SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. SIIKAURAQ WHITING: -- eating muskrats? SALLY GALLAHORN: Uh-huh. SIIKAURAQ WHITING: And -- Do you remember -- SALLY GALLAHORN: And drying -- they dried them, and they cooked them fresh, I guess. SIIKAURAQ WHITING: Do you remember if there was any traditional medicine used for any parts of the muskrat? The body? That people might have used them for medicine? SALLY GALLAHORN: I don't kno -- remember. SIIKAURAQ WHITING: Or mostly it was food and -- SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. SIIKAURAQ WHITING: Clothing? SALLY GALLAHORN: Uh-huh. But like the other fur, I don't think -- I don't know what they did with the -- I mean, like the mink and -- I don't think they ate mink, or did they? SIIKAURAQ WHITING: I'm not -- I don't think so. SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. Like they'd get a lot of mink and those er -- weasels. And fox, red fox. But I don't remember even getting any white fox. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm. SALLY GALLAHORN: Just the red fox. And I think they called one kind cross fox, or something.

KAREN BREWSTER: Hm-mm. And your dad would buy those furs also? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. SALLY GALLAHORN: Uh-huh. KAREN BREWSTER: What time of year was that? SALLY GALLAHORN: Winter. KAREN BREWSTER: Those are all winter? SALLY GALLAHORN: All those winter. KAREN BREWSTER: Okay. SALLY GALLAHORN: And the muskrats were spring, springtime.

KAREN BREWSTER: Did you ever go out muskrat hunting? SALLY GALLAHORN: No. KAREN BREWSTER: No. SALLY GALLAHORN: I mean, like we'd follow them close by to the lakes sometimes. The women would go close by Selawik, I mean Niliq. And we'd -- they'd have traps that they set, you know, in the lake. And they'd go look at -- get muskrats.

SIIKAURAQ WHITING: And who was your family living with you at the time? You had brothers and sisters, or aunties? Who was your family living at Niliq at the time you were there? SALLY GALLAHORN: I had one aunt living with us, I think. Beulah Levy, her name was. And I had another aunt, Myra, but she was at -- then, I think there was Eklutna, or she was -- KAREN BREWSTER: Hm-mm. SALLY GALLAHORN: -- going to school, the high school, there. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm-mm. Yeah, there was a high school at Eklutna. SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. Long time ago. In fact, there were a lot of 'em from here. Or I, too, you know, and she -- You --

SIIKAURAQ WHITING: When you're at Niliq, and the store was there, was there like a church or a school, or any -- SALLY GALLAHORN: I don't remember any -- SIIKAURAQ WHITING: -- other organization or business or -- SALLY GALLAHORN: They didn't have no church that I know of, but they might have had churches in their home. You know, somebody's home.

KAREN BREWSTER: And what about school? SALLY GALLAHORN: No school there. That's why when we were ready to go to school, we moved to Selawik. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm-mm. And you learned to speak Iñupiaq? SALLY GALLAHORN: Oh, yeah. Because everybody talked Eskimo. All our friends, you know. I think, we must've learned Eskimo when we were little tiny kids. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm-mm. SALLY GALLAHORN: I mean -- SIIKAURAQ WHITING: Who were some -- SALLY GALLAHORN: In school. But they wouldn't let us talk in school. Later on, you know.

SIIKAURAQ WHITING: Who were some of your friends when you were at Niliq? Who were some of your buddies that used to -- SALLY GALLAHORN: There was Fosters, Mary, and I think it was Nettie. And, let's see, Luke Good -- his daughter. His daughter, I know. KAREN BREWSTER: And Emma? SALLY GALLAHORN: Emma, yeah. Emma Ramoth. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm-mm. SALLY GALLAHORN: Hm-mm. She was way younger. You know, younger than us. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm-mm.

SALLY GALLAHORN: There were a lot of kids. We'd be -- our favorite game was jack stones. We'd be playing jack stones all the time. KAREN BREWSTER: What's that? SALLY GALLAHORN: On the floor in the store. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, jacks with a ball? SALLY GALLAHORN: Uh-huh, yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, that. And -- and -- SALLY GALLAHORN: But wintertime we'd play -- and springtime when it was warm, we'd play some kind of games, ball games. You know, like we call it Norwegian. And some of those games. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm. Yeah, you mentioned skating on the ice. What kind of things did you guys do in the summertime as kids? SALLY GALLAHORN: What did we do in the summer? When we were in Selawik or -- ? KAREN BREWSTER: Either one. SALLY GALLAHORN: Either one. Oh. I think -- you see, there we were going to school. KAREN BREWSTER: In Selawik, yeah? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. So, there was more things for us to do. You know, like, we had -- there was always ball games and -- and in summertime we'd play something like baseball, but it wasn't baseball. I think. I don't remember what -- Ballgames, anyway. They didn't have basketball or things like that. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm-mm. And what was it like growing up in Selawik? SALLY GALLAHORN: It was -- we liked it there. There was more to do after we got older. But we -- then we left when we were -- there was no seventh and eighth grade in Selawik, so that's when we -- my dad took us to Fairbanks. And he had friends there, and we went to school there in the wintertime. You know -- KAREN BREWSTER: Starting in seventh grade? SALLY GALLAHORN: Uh-huh. Go home in the summer, and then after that we went to high school in Seattle.

KAREN BREWSTER: And when did he open the store here in Kotzebue? SALLY GALLAHORN: It must've been in '40's maybe. When did it open in Selawik? What does it say? (pointing to old store calendars hanging on the wall) SIIKAURAQ WHITING: Well, those calendars say Kotzebue and Selawik 1956. SALLY GALLAHORN: Oh. SIIKAURAQ WHITING: And the other one is 1970. SALLY GALLAHORN: I think it was in the '40s. KAREN BREWSTER: Okay. SALLY GALLAHORN: Early '40s here, maybe. Well, Maggot -- you don't know. No, you wouldn't remember Maggot's Store.

SIIKAURAQ WHITING: And the store in Selawik was opened first? There was a store in Niliq and then Selawik and then Kotzebue? Is that how -- SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. You see, he worked for -- there was Maggot's here. And Maggot's had hired him to run -- they found a place in Selawik to work for them and run it. And then my dad decided he wanted -- He worked for him for about a year, and he wanted to run, you know, start a store himself, so that's how -- when he -- must've been maybe -- It might have been '40. '40, maybe. Early.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. But he closed the store in Niliq -- SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. Uh-huh. KAREN BREWSTER: -- and then started Selawik? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: And then he -- SALLY GALLAHORN: 'Cause then, everybody would be camping, but they'd go back to Selawik. You know, camping for the -- in the springtime and go -- move back to Selawik. They'd go to their camp maybe in April, and -- March and April, that's when they would hunt muskrats. KAREN BREWSTER: Okay. SALLY GALLAHORN: And then they'd move back to Selawik after that.

KAREN BREWSTER: Okay. And when your dad went collecting by boat, how far up river did he go? SALLY GALLAHORN: Way up. I don't know what you call those, the names. But it took a long time to get there, I know. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm-mm. SALLY GALLAHORN: That's where they'd -- they'd be camping, you know, everybody. We'd go to all the cam -- I'd go with him. We'd go to all the camps. KAREN BREWSTER: And so past Niliq? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah, way above Niliq. It was quite a ways. Their -- their muskrat camps. And -- but I don't know about mink and -- (phone rings) Mostly, the men, I think, would go in the wintertime, not the whole family.

KAREN BREWSTER: Hm-mm. But muskrat, the whole family went? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. 'Cause they stayed there for about maybe two months. They'd start in, maybe May. And be -- and then they'd come down in rafts from up -- up there. You know, they'd get logs. And that's how, I think, they built some homes. Their homes.

SIIKAURAQ WHITING: Speaking of some of the homes that were built, somebody mentioned that some part of the store in Niliq or Selawik was used to build something here in Kotzebue. Do you remember which building that is? SALLY GALLAHORN: Oh, that -- that was -- He had built a -- it was something like a home. Remember it used to be over here. Right over here. SIIKAURAQ WHITING: Across the street? SALLY GALLAHORN: Uh-huh. Across from -- right by Harris's. Across. It was a log cabin, and -- SIIKAURAQ WHITING: Yeah. SALLY GALLAHORN: And my dad moved it down here. Brought it down with the -- his boat. Well, he must've had a -- Maybe he used somebody's barge or something? KAREN BREWSTER: So, he didn't have a barge? (phone rings) SALLY GALLAHORN: I don't think so.

KAREN BREWSTER: So that -- that log building came from Selawik or from Niliq? SALLY GALLAHORN: First he brought it to Selawik, and then to here. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, so it was originally at Niliq? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: What was it used for up there? SALLY GALLAHORN: It was -- he built it for -- it was living quarters and a store. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm. SALLY GALLAHORN: But it wasn't that big, you know. It wasn't -- And then when he decided to move down here, he brought it down here. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh. Do -- SALLY GALLAHORN: So, we lived in it for awhile here, 'til he -- the store got built.

SIIKAURAQ WHITING: Who built this store (meaning Rotman's)? SALLY GALLAHORN: It was -- there was some construction company up here and I think they were building FAA homes. That was a long time ago, when they first built the homes. And then he must've talked them into staying and build this. Or maybe they wanted to, you know, I don't know.

KAREN BREWSTER: Hm. The families who were way up river muskrat hunting that your dad went and bought furs from, do you remember the names of any of those families? SALLY GALLAHORN: I should. I know there were Sheldons and Russell, Irvin Russell. Harry Mitchell. And who else? Joe -- I think was there a Joe Foxglove? I think so.

SIIKAURAQ WHITING: Sally, do you remember your papa and your mama's Iñupiaq names? SALLY GALLAHORN: My mom's was Qauġruq. But I don't know how you spell it. KAREN BREWSTER: That's okay. SALLY GALLAHORN: Hm-mm. And -- but -- they didn't call -- My dad they'd call him Rotmauraq. SIIKAURAQ WHITING: Rotmauraq. SALLY GALLAHORN: You know, part of his name, you know. SIIKAURAQ WHITING: And -- and what's your Iñupiaq name? SALLY GALLAHORN: Oh, I had how many -- they named me so many names, I can't even -- I know there was an old lady in Selawik, you know, that named me after her. I think it was -- What was it? Was Aullaqsraaq or -- there were -- There was a lot of older -- old women they'd name us -- but they'd name us after them, you know. And -- and Aullaqsraaq and who was Amianiq and all those.

SIIKAURAQ WHITING: Do you remember any other stores in the region when you were growing up? You mentioned another one earlier, and then Rotman's. Who were some of the store owners in the region? SALLY GALLAHORN: In Selawik, there was Ferguson's. SIIKAURAQ WHITING: Ferguson's? SALLY GALLAHORN: Uh-huh. Archie and Hadley. Yeah. And then -- But here, there were, you know, Tom Barryman and Maggot's.

SIIKAURAQ WHITING: So you were born into a store life? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. SIIKAURAQ WHITING: With your father and you're still at a store, now, and -- SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. SIIKAURAQ WHITING: What are some things that you would talk to young people about working hard for the work that they do? Because Rotman's, I know, hired so many people in Selawik and Kotzebue over many years. SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah, uh-huh. SIIKAURAQ WHITING: What kind of advice would you give them to work hard and own their own business? SALLY GALLAHORN: What kind of what? SIIKAURAQ WHITING: Advice. SALLY GALLAHORN: Oh. SIIKAURAQ WHITING: If somebody wanted to work hard and -- SALLY GALLAHORN: Oh, yeah. SIIKAURAQ WHITING: -- own their own store, or their own business.

SALLY GALLAHORN: I guess they'd -- Just have to work hard, that's all, to start a business. You know, they'd have to -- I'm sure it was hard for my dad at first, you know, to decide to go on his own, and the one that he worked for didn't want him to, so they were not getting along. I always remember that, 'cause we'd go look for my dad, and we'd wait -- he'd be there at Maggot's and we'd -- they'd be hollering and they'd be arguing, and, you know, -- and we'd run in and say, "We wan -- " "We -- " Mom would tell us, and we'd go to Mom first and say, "We want quarters and dimes." You know, they'd have candy. This -- we're not used to stores, you know. And, I mean, the bigger stores. And so, finally, she said, "Oh, I don't have no more coins. Go to your dad. He's at the Maggot's." So, we'd run there and then all the people that were there, and there'd be a lot of 'em, you know, just talking, and they'd all give us all their change. So, we had a lot of change. And we'd run to all the -- And we had a lot of friends, you know, with us, so we'd buy all kinds of sweets.

SIIKAURAQ WHITING: What kinds of sweets were you -- what kind of -- your -- the candy at the store when you were a kid at Niliq, what kind of candy was sold there? Do you remember? SALLY GALLAHORN: I remember the hard candy, you know, the mixed. They had a lot of that. But they had some candy bars, too. The older ones, I guess. I don't know which ones we had. And like, they called them suckers. I know we had some kind of candy.

SIIKAURAQ WHITING: Do you remember anybody that built that store at Niliq? Do you remember any of the carpenters that built the store at Niliq? SALLY GALLAHORN: Let's see. I'm trying to think who. It might have been like Joe Foxglove. And there were some, you know, carpenters. They knew how to build homes. But I don't really know their names. KAREN BREWSTER: So the -- there were some local men who helped your dad build the store? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah, uh-huh. It was all local, I think, yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: And did -- SALLY GALLAHORN: Log cabins. KAREN BREWSTER: It was all log cabins? SALLY GALLAHORN: Hm-mm.

KAREN BREWSTER: You were talking about candy, what other things did they sell at the store in Niliq? SALLY GALLAHORN: Besides groceries and -- KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah, what kind of groceries? What kind of things did they sell? SALLY GALLAHORN: You know, like coffee, sugar, milk. All the main things. And a lot of canned fruits. I always remember canned fruits. And dried fruits. And what else? KAREN BREWSTER: Did they sell -- SALLY GALLAHORN: And then we'd get like potatoes and onions once a year. You know, get a whole bunch, I guess, but I don't know how they kept them. When the barge came. There'd be two b -- one in the fall or -- and one in early summer. You know. KAREN BREWSTER: And the barge came here to Kotzebue? SALLY GALLAHORN: To Kotzebue, then we'd have -- they'd have to haul them up. KAREN BREWSTER: So how did they haul them up? SALLY GALLAHORN: With our -- with our boat. We had a big -- like a big scow or something. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm-mm. SIIKAURAQ WHITING: Do you remember the name of your boat? SALLY GALLAHORN: I can't remember if one was named "Seymour" or -- I don't remember.

KAREN BREWSTER: So, the store in Niliq, did they also sell supplies and like canvas and fabric and -- SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: -- other things besides food? SALLY GALLAHORN: Uh-huh. We had a few dry goods. Not much, you know. Like boots and gloves. (phone rings) And material for -- for parkies. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm-mm.

SIIKAURAQ WHITING: Sally, do you remember the last time you were at Niliq? SALLY GALLAHORN: You know, the last time we were there, I think it was the time we came to Selawik -- I mean Kotzebue. I mean Selawik with a dog team. That was the last time I remember. KAREN BREWSTER: You didn't go back after you left? SALLY GALLAHORN: No. Uh-uh. Oh, we went back. I mean, went back up river with the boat, I think. But, we -- we didn't stay there. 'Cause there was no where to stay anyway. That building was gone. There's still a tin warehouse there, you know. Selawik people use it for I don't know, whatever, I guess.

KAREN BREWSTER: We -- you'd mentioned the other stores and other traders, so how did that work with your dad and Archie Ferguson if they were both buying furs? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: How did that work? SALLY GALLAHORN: Archie Ferguson, him and his wife -- his wife ran the store and Archie Ferguson had an airplane when they first started. But Archie did mostly flying, I think, you know. Maybe passengers, but that was later on. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm-mm. SALLY GALLAHORN: That started. KAREN BREWSTER: But did he go up river collecting like your dad? SALLY GALLAHORN: No. Uh-uh. They -- they didn't, Fergusons.

KAREN BREWSTER: Did people bring furs to them at the store in -- their store in Selawik? SALLY GALLAHORN: I'm sure they did, you know, but they didn't really -- like they were not -- you know, their store was kind of empty all the time. I don't know why. They were into airplanes. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm-mm. Yeah, I was trying to figure out how you decide who you're selling your fur to? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Whether it's Rotman or Ferguson. SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah, they -- they were -- I mean, she ran it real good and everything, but it -- they just didn't have the -- that many groceries and --

KAREN BREWSTER: So, selling your muskrat fur to Rotman was the way to go? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. We had everything. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm-mm. SALLY GALLAHORN: But -- And then wintertime, they'd -- you know, mink was in demand, and mink and fox. Even those little -- what do they call them, ermine? KAREN BREWSTER: Ermine. The little white ones? SALLY GALLAHORN: White. Uh-huh.

KAREN BREWSTER: Now, would your dad go up collecting in the winter, too? SALLY GALLAHORN: No, they'd come down. They'd go down to Selawik. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh.

SIIKAURAQ WHITING: When you guys were traveling up and down the river, you mentioned boats. Most of them were wooden boats. Did you guys travel in skin kayaks or umiaqs, too? SALLY GALLAHORN: No. SIIKAURAQ WHITING: Just the skin -- or the wooden boats? SALLY GALLAHORN: Wooden boats. People had like -- they didn't need boats, really, I guess. They had like riverboats, you know, rowboats. Everybody had a row boat. And summertime they'd come down with a raft. And they'd have their boat with them. And some of them had motors, little motors, you know.

SIIKAURAQ WHITING: Do you -- do you remember if there was a cemetery or if people "tuqu" (to die) at Niliq? Was there a little cemetery, there, too? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. Uh-huh, there was. It was back -- back in the hills behind the store, kinda far. KAREN BREWSTER: Do you remember anybody who's buried there? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah, my -- my mom's -- I mean, our brother, Seymour. The first Seymour. They named the -- He died when he was born, you know. SIIKAURAQ WHITING: So, he's buried at Niliq? SALLY GALLAHORN: Uh-huh. He's buried there. That's where he was born. KAREN BREWSTER: What about some of those elders you said who lived there? Are they buried there? SALLY GALLAHORN: There's some that are buried there. A lot of 'em are buried in Selawik, I think.

KAREN BREWSTER: Hm-mm. Are there any other memories you have as a child at Niliq or Selawik that -- ? SALLY GALLAHORN: Like, I don't know. Selawik -- Well, when we got older, we got into working in the store, you know. Then when we moved down here, we worked in the -- we had a counter here. And there was nowhere to eat in town, you know. But it was just -- not -- well, Mom used to -- they'd have a roast every day, you know, for the hunters and then there'd be, you know, like hamburgers and sandwiches. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah, you said you used to have some rooms here that the polar bear hunters used to stay in? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. Uh-huh. KAREN BREWSTER: Like a little hotel? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. We have a book with -- instead of registry when they come, Mom had a book or -- and it's here someplace. KAREN BREWSTER: Great. SALLY GALLAHORN: There's all kinds of names from all over. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm-mm.

SALLY GALLAHORN: Like I remember -- but then Edna Ferber stayed here for about a month. I don't know what she was doing so long. Maybe writing something? KAREN BREWSTER: Writing one of her books. SALLY GALLAHORN: Books, eh. Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm-mm. SALLY GALLAHORN: I remember her. KAREN BREWSTER: What was she like? SALLY GALLAHORN: She was real nice. She was not -- she was kind of an older lady when she was here. And there were -- there were a lot of people that, you know, if they -- they're in that book, I guess, all their names. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm-mm. Neat.

SIIKAURAQ WHITING: Did you have other people staying with you guys in Selawik or at Niliq like a hotel? SALLY GALLAHORN: No. SIIKAURAQ WHITING: Or people had no place to stay, did they stay with you guys, too? SALLY GALLAHORN: Uh-uh. KAREN BREWSTER: No? SALLY GALLAHORN: They'd come up just for the day, like lot of fur buyers would come. And they'd come in the morning, you know, small planes. Well, if it got bad weather they'd stay overnight with us or something, you know.

KAREN BREWSTER: But they weren't competition for buying furs? SALLY GALLAHORN: Uh, they were, you know, there were quite a few different fur buyers. For different companies, I guess. (phone rings) But, they just come up for the day and go back. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm. SALLY GALLAHORN: But, I didn't know -- I don't know what they bought the furs for. I don't really --

KAREN BREWSTER: Well, it sounds like, yeah, is there -- as a kid you started working in your dad's store and you've just kept going. SALLY GALLAHORN: Uh-huh. KAREN BREWSTER: And now you run the one here, right? SALLY GALLAHORN: Uh-huh. KAREN BREWSTER: Took over the family business. SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. It was -- we were -- It started out at -- mostly at Selawik, you know, because we were real small at that time. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. SALLY GALLAHORN: At Niliq. But, we worked hard. And then in the store there, they used to -- long ago they used to have cellars or something, you know, under the house. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, yeah, like a root cellar. SALLY GALLAHORN: Uh-huh. And that's where they'd keep all the like potatoes and -- you know, it's cool, I guess, 'cause -- We never used to go down there much, 'cause it was so dark, seems like. I mean, when they went down, they'd light gas lamps. you know.

KAREN BREWSTER: Oh. So, the store had a big cellar? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah, that they kept all that stuff -- SALLY GALLAHORN: In Kotzebue, uh-huh. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh here, in Kotzebue? SALLY GALLAHORN: I mean in -- KAREN BREWSTER: In Selawik? SALLY GALLAHORN: Selawik, yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. So, no selling of bananas or strawberries back then? SALLY GALLAHORN: No. Uh-uh. Just oranges, apples. I don't recall bananas much either. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. Oranges, apples, potatoes, onions? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Turnips? SALLY GALLAHORN: Turnips, and -- I don't know what else. Seems like they'd keep a long time, you know. The potatoes, onions.

SIIKAURAQ WHITING: Sally, these days, you guys have t-shirts or bags and calendars that say Rotman's, do you remember selling -- were there things like that at Niliq that said Rotman's, too? In the early days? SALLY GALLAHORN: I think there was calendars. That's all I remember. But -- SIIKAURAQ WHITING: So --

KAREN BREWSTER: I notice on the 2018 calendar here on your wall, it says "Serving you since 1932." SALLY GALLAHORN: Hm-mm. Oh, that's -- so, that must be about right. KAREN BREWSTER: That would've started -- that would have been Niliq. SALLY GALLAHORN: Because I was a baby when I -- you know, when we moved to Selawik. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm-mm. Well, it doesn't say if 1932 was Selawik or Niliq. SALLY GALLAHORN: Oh. KAREN BREWSTER: It just says 1932. SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah, it would've been Selawik, I think. Maybe. Or would it be -- Maybe, it woul -- maybe we were in Niliq first? KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. If you were born in '31? SALLY GALLAHORN: Uh-huh. I don't remem -- KAREN BREWSTER: And you were in Niliq first? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. 'Cause when we -- I kind of remember when our grandpa, mom's mom, he stayed with us for awhile, you know. And he was real elderly. And then he didn't live very long. But, he used to live in Kiana before that.

KAREN BREWSTER: So, do you remember when all that fur trading kind of stopped? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah, stopped buying muskrats and -- well, they just didn't -- muskrats just went down, the prices, you know. So nobody would -- I mean, they didn't even hunt very much anymore. Just because the stores, I don't think they were really interested in buying them, you know. Didn't have buyers. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm-mm. SALLY GALLAHORN: To sell them to. KAREN BREWSTER: Do you remember what time period that was? SALLY GALLAHORN: It had to be before we moved down here, I know that. KAREN BREWSTER: So, 1940's or '50s? SALLY GALLAHORN: '40. Maybe '40, maybe late '40s.

KAREN BREWSTER: So was it hard for your dad keeping a store running out in Selawik back in those days? SALLY GALLAHORN: Not really. I think. I mean, he seemed to have everything organized. He'd buy cords and cords of wood, you know. I mean, logs. And then somehow I remember there used to be a big noise with something that cuts the woods or something. We didn't really pay attention. He'd have men working there in front, toward the water, in front of the store. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm-mm. SALLY GALLAHORN: Cutting wood for the winter. Like they'd pile them all up. KAREN BREWSTER: And then would he sell that? SALLY GALLAHORN: No. KAREN BREWSTER: No? SALLY GALLAHORN: For -- he needed them for the store. KAREN BREWSTER: To keep the store warm? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah, yeah. I don't know how many cords, but --

SIIKAURAQ WHITING: That store in Selawik right now, was there one that was built before that? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah, there was one before. An old one. He didn't build that. He got it from -- I don't know, it was there. It was a building that -- It wasn't miners, I knew it was some people that -- I don't know what they were doing there, really. And then he got it from them, I think. KAREN BREWSTER: The first store? Or the second? The one that's there now? SALLY GALLAHORN: No, not -- the other one. KAREN BREWSTER: The first one? SALLY GALLAHORN: The first one. Uh-huh. KAREN BREWSTER: He got from somebody? SALLY GALLAHORN: Hm-mm. KAREN BREWSTER: And then, the one that's there now? SALLY GALLAHORN: He built it. KAREN BREWSTER: He built it? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: And it's still there. SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. It's getting kinda old, maybe. I don't know when it was built. Maybe in the -- I think in the '50s or something. Late. KAREN BREWSTER: He built it. SALLY GALLAHORN: Hm-mm. Or early '50s.

KAREN BREWSTER: I don't know if you know this, since you were a kid, but when people bought things with those muskrat furs, what they would get? Like a gunnysack of furs was how many and what would they get in exchange? Do you know that? SALLY GALLAHORN: They'd like -- They'd bring a gunnysack of muskrats and what do you mean? KAREN BREWSTER: Like -- like if you brought a gunnysack -- like, if you wanted a fifty pound bag of flour -- SALLY GALLAHORN: Oh. KAREN BREWSTER: -- how many muskrats would you have to have? Or a ten pound bag of flour. SALLY GALLAHORN: I know when the muskrats were -- some of them were three dollar -- I don't know how much the -- well, the flour and sugar and stuff wasn't that expensive then, you know. So, probably, you could get flour with two or three muskrats, you know. KAREN BREWSTER: Okay.

SALLY GALLAHORN: But, they had -- they -- the ones that hunted up way up the river and they'd get a lot of muskrats, they'd have bags of muskrat. I remember that, 'cause they used to come in the store with all their muskrats and then -- in those days there was a lot of string. I wonder what they used them for. Maybe -- you know string? KAREN BREWSTER: For making a net? SALLY GALLAHORN: No. KAREN BREWSTER: No? SALLY GALLAHORN: They look like net, but it's not. It's -- it's not twine, it's just string. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm. SALLY GALLAHORN: And they'd use it -- it's for the store. The store uses it. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, okay. SALLY GALLAHORN: For tying things. I wonder what would be tie up so -- KAREN BREWSTER: Bags? SALLY GALLAHORN: Maybe. KAREN BREWSTER: Before we had twist-ties. SALLY GALLAHORN: Maybe. Yeah, I don't know. Just --

And then, the people would come with their bags of some of their -- the ones that got a lot of muskrats, and then they'd count them there and put them in bundles of twenties or -- and tie them up with the string. SIIKAURAQ WHITING: All the furs were just dried, right? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. SIIKAURAQ WHITING: They were not tanned? They were just dried? SALLY GALLAHORN: Just dried, uh-huh. They dried them on boards. I remember they used to have a lot of boards. Each family, you know. They must've made them. From what? Maybe logs? But we had lumber.

KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. But, so a bundle of -- what did you say, twelve or twenty? SALLY GALLAHORN: A bundle would be twenty. KAREN BREWSTER: Twenty. SALLY GALLAHORN: And then they'd put, how many in a gunnysack? I should know that, because I used to see them pile -- putting them in. Maybe twenty in a -- no, it would have to be ten. KAREN BREWSTER: Ten bundles? SALLY GALLAHORN: That's not very much, huh. KAREN BREWSTER: That's 200. SALLY GALLAHORN: Oh, 200? KAREN BREWSTER: If it's twenty per bundle and then you put ten bundles, that would be 200. SALLY GALLAHORN: Hm-mm. KAREN BREWSTER: But, I don't know how many muskrat fit in a gunnysack. SALLY GALLAHORN: I don't know. When he shipped them out, they -- he -- he'd put them in bundles. I mean, in gunnysacks, you know. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm-mm.

SIIKAURAQ WHITING: When he shipped them out, were they shipped out with a barge or were they shipped out by plane? Or both? SALLY GALLAHORN: I think it was by plane from Selawik, but here maybe with the post office. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, okay. SALLY GALLAHORN: But they were packed and ready to go in Selawik. KAREN BREWSTER: Right. And did he ship them out pretty quickly? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Afterwards? SALLY GALLAHORN: Afterwards, yeah.

KAREN BREWSTER: Hm. Yeah, I was just always curious how much you would get in the store if you came in with a gunnysack of muskrat. What you could by -- you know, buy. SALLY GALLAHORN: I think you could buy a lot of things with muskrats. I mean, you know, the muskrat -- Sometimes -- Some years it was three dollars, then it -- I think it went up to five or six dollars each. KAREN BREWSTER: That's pretty good. SALLY GALLAHORN: Hm-mm.

SIIKAURAQ WHITING: In your dad's store, when they sold stuff, like coffee or sugar and flour, did he also buy and sell like traditional, like ikuuns, or ulus or parkies? Some that people made? Did he sell that kind of stuff, too? SALLY GALLAHORN: No. But, sometimes -- sometimes parkies though, you know. Cloth parkies. And seems like people mostly sold for themselves in those days, you know, 'cause they had to make so much for everybody. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah.

SIIKAURAQ WHITING: Do you have anything else, Sally? SALLY GALLAHORN: No, that's all I could think of. KAREN BREWSTER: Okay. Well, thank you very much for your time and your good memories. SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah, I -- Not really good memory.

KAREN BREWSTER: No, yeah, it seems like Niliq and Selawik would be good places to grow up. SALLY GALLAHORN: Uh-huh. KAREN BREWSTER: Must be pretty up there. SALLY GALLAHORN: Not Selawik. I mean, Selawik is just like -- it's not like Kiana or -- KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. SALLY GALLAHORN: You know.

KAREN BREWSTER: Is Niliq pretty? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah, it's kind of pretty.

SIIKAURAQ WHITING: I was there this summer, and I walked through the warehouse. I have some pictures. SALLY GALLAHORN: Oh. SIIKAURAQ WHITING: If you have email, I can email you or maybe Thomas. I have some pictures of the warehouse. And inside the warehouse there's an old woodstove, and there was an old kayak. That's why I asked earlier about people going on wooden boats or kayaks. SALLY GALLAHORN: Oh, yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah, they used to a lot, I think, on wooden boats and kayaks. The people would, you know, 'cause that's the only way they could go hunting was kayaks in those days. I know they did a lot of ducks and geese. KAREN BREWSTER: In all the lakes? SALLY GALLAHORN: Hm-mm.

SIIKAURAQ WHITING: And lots of berries. SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah, lots of berries. KAREN BREWSTER: Did you do a lot of berry picking? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah, we'd go berry picking. You didn't have to go far. KAREN BREWSTER: Nice. SALLY GALLAHORN: Up Selawik -- I mean, yeah, a lot of blueberries there. There used to be.

KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, I was going to say, your dad went collecting up Selawik River, did he ever go up the Tagraġvik or -- what's the other one? SALLY GALLAHORN: Is that Selawik? KAREN BREWSTER: Up past Niliq. SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah, I'm sure he did. KAREN BREWSTER: But, there's -- what's the Tagraġvik? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah, I've heard of that. Way up river, if that's the one. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. SALLY GALLAHORN: We went way up. We'd be gone for days and days, you know. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm. Well.

SIIKAURAQ WHITING: Just you and your mom and dad, or you and your dad? SALLY GALLAHORN: Just me and my dad. 'Cause mom had to stay in the store, yeah. You know, the -- KAREN BREWSTER: And that was coming up from Selawik or from Niliq? Or from -- SALLY GALLAHORN: From Selawik. KAREN BREWSTER: Okay. SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. And we'd -- some camps they were far from where we stopped, you know, I mean, parked. KAREN BREWSTER: Hm-mm. SALLY GALLAHORN: And sometimes they'd have to walk. 'Cause they're back in the lakes. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, so they would walk in and meet you at the river? SALLY GALLAHORN: Uh-huh. And they'd -- some of them if they could come with a boat, they could, but you can't some places, you know.

KAREN BREWSTER: And how would they know you were coming, or that you were there? SALLY GALLAHORN: I don't remember that, you know, but I guess they -- KAREN BREWSTER: He'd have a little -- SALLY GALLAHORN: -- knew every year we'd -- KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. SALLY GALLAHORN: -- come.

KAREN BREWSTER: How many years did your dad do that, go up collecting? SALLY GALLAHORN: I would say about -- more than ten years, I know that. KAREN BREWSTER: Okay. I think maybe he had a little horn, "Toot, toot." Collector's coming. SALLY GALLAHORN: Maybe.

SIIKAURAQ WHITING: Sally, when did your -- when did your papa pass away? SALLY GALLAHORN: '55 or '54, I think. KAREN BREWSTER: What about your mother? SALLY GALLAHORN: When was mom? It was, see, November -- Was it in the '50s? Do you remember my mom? SIIKAURAQ WHITING: It was in the '80s, because I worked at Rotman's in the '80s and she was my boss. SALLY GALLAHORN: Oh, she was there in the '80s, so -- so it had to be maybe in '90s or what? Late '90s, maybe. SIIKAURAQ WHITING: Sounds about right.

KAREN BREWSTER: And your -- your -- when did you say your father passed away? SALLY GALLAHORN: In early '50s., it was. KAREN BREWSTER: Okay. SALLY GALLAHORN: '50 -- '54, '55. KAREN BREWSTER: Okay. Was he -- he was pretty young? SALLY GALLAHORN: He was way older than Mom. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, okay.

SALLY GALLAHORN: He had a tough life, you know. He was -- where was he born? Where that -- where they bombed -- or they killed all the -- what was that war somewhere? Where jewish people -- KAREN BREWSTER: World War II? SALLY GALLAHORN: Maybe. KAREN BREWSTER: With Germany? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah, I think so. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, World War I, it would've been. SALLY GALLAHORN: One, I think. KAREN BREWSTER: It had to have been World War I. SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah.

And somehow he got -- he was a stowaway. I mean, he got out of there, you know. And he had an aunt in New York. He finally got to New York, I guess. Maybe that's where he worked for a while? KAREN BREWSTER: So did he -- was he born in -- ? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: United States? SALLY GALLAHORN: No. KAREN BREWSTER: No. Where was he born? SALLY GALLAHORN: Poland somewhere. KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, okay. SALLY GALLAHORN: I know the name of it, but I --

KAREN BREWSTER: Oh, and then he -- he immigrated to the US? SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah. KAREN BREWSTER: Yeah. SALLY GALLAHORN: Uh-huh. Then he became a citizen. US citizen. Later on.

KAREN BREWSTER: Great. Okay. Have we tired you out? SALLY GALLAHORN: No. KAREN BREWSTER: Well, thank you very, very much. SALLY GALLAHORN: Yeah, you're welcome.