This is a continuation of the interview with Michael "Mike" Miller on February 3, 2016 by Jan Yaeger at the Seldovia Museum in Seldovia, Alaska. In this second part of a two part interview, Mike talks about memories of Russian Christmans celebrations when growing up in Seldovia, his experience with the 1964 Earthquake on a boat in Adak, Alaska, and his father's work as a police officer in Seldovia, including some of the difficult things he had to deal with. Mike also talks about why he decided to return to and settle in Seldovia.
Digital Asset Information
Project: Seldovia Project Jukebox
Date of Interview: Feb 3, 2016
Narrator(s): Michael "Mike" Miller
Interviewer(s): Jan Yaeger
Transcriber: Joan O'Leary
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Celebration of Russian Christmas and New Year's
Being on a fishing boat in Adak during the 1964 Alaska Earthquake
Thorvald and Martha Jensen's success with a fishtrap at Stariski
His father becoming a police officer
Equipment his dad had as a police officer, and getting rid of squirrels
Being the only police officer and dealing with rough guys and the Columbia River Gang
Dealing with troubles, blue tickets, and drinking problems
Challenges of the job as a police officer
His father's cancer, and story about meeting Elmer Rasmuson in Anchorage
His father's return to his job in Seldovia, and his death
Mike coming back to live in Seldovia
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JAN YAEGER: Another thing that I heard you mention another time that we haven’t really had anyone talk about yet was like Russian Easter and Russian Christmas and so on. Do you remember those celebrations?
MIKE MILLER: Oh, yeah, I sure do, yeah. Well, I remember the -- I remember the starring, especially, you know.
And I remember people coming around. It was usually like the Sorokovikoffs, or, you know, and people they'd come around with the star.
And I remember them coming down to our house and dad would give them all a shot of whiskey, you know, after they'd starred -- sang, you know.
And they'd have a shot of whiskey and cold, you know, in the middle of wintertime. Out they’d go and go someplace else and sing, you know, and do the star. I remember that.
And then one year I was old enough to go. They had -- also had a deal on the -- in the old -- behind the Linwood, what was it called? The something room -- the Blue Room, the Blue Room, yeah.
And they had -- they’d have -- it had its own private entry from the boardwalk that went out in this long kind of a corridor, went out behind the bar and -- there’s a, you know, built into the dock and so forth and it was a meeting place, and connected to the bar.
But they had, always, like March of Dimes would have their raffles and all this sort of stuff there.
And I remember one year going there and it was a Russian New Year’s -- it was a Russian New Year’s celebration and I remember the --
Nick Elxnit was the -- always, I guess as far back as I can remember, he was always the devil and came around you know and stab at you with the pitchfork and everything and scare you off.
And then, of course, there would be the changeover at midnight and the baby would come out then and the devil would be chased off and, you know. I remember parts of that, yeah.
And I remember, too, like Easter and all the old people would give -- the Native people would give everybody kulich, you know. I really enjoyed that. All those good old traditions.
There was a lot of the -- lot of Russian influence here when I was a kid. And then it was, you know, it was kind of all went away by the time I got into the -- I shouldn’t say that, that it went away, but it wasn’t as prevalent anyway by the time that we left here in ’56.
And then when we went -- I went to Kodiak and started staying there pretty much throughout the winter, after the earthquake and the tidal wave, and I was really surprised to see all those, you know, there was still really a strong Russian influence over there. So a lot of that stuff.
And I married a Native girl over there, and so I was pretty much in with the Native people there, you know.
And went all around the island and, you know, and went to different villages and all that and just really enjoyed it over there so.
Yeah, I lived there for -- let’s see, from 1966, I believe, yeah ’66 until ’71 or ’72.
JAN YAEGER: So when the earthquake hit, you were down in California?
MIKE MILLER: No, I was out in Adak when it happened and yeah.
We’d been fishing king crab out there and, let’s see, how did it go? I was -- I was on a boat was called the Richard D and it was owned by this Merrill Hennington that used to live here in Seldovia, and he had two boats out there.
One of them was the Richard D that I was on with this Tricky George Johnson, fishing with him, and Merrill was -- had his other boat, the Pacific something -- Pacific Fisher.
And the Pacific Fisher had a -- had an old Atlas, heavy duty, slow-turning engine in it that -- it blew up on him before the season got over, and so they -- they couldn’t replace the engine or anything.
So what the plan was, it was right towards the end of the season and so what the plan was that they would leave it tied up to the dock there in Adak at a place called Finger Bay.
And -- and then, when we got done fishing with the Richard D then the Richard D would tow the Pacific Fisher to Seattle and change the engine in it.
And so, in the meantime, we fished both their gear and our gear, so we had both crews aboard the one boat. They’d just leave every time we’d come in there, we’d -- they’d change, but they’d have somebody staying aboard the Pacific Fisher while it was tied to the dock.
And so, we’d come -- we’d been doing that for, oh, I don’t know, a few days and then the earthquake, you know, we got the word oh there was a big earthquake in Kodiak and blah, blah, blah and so forth, you know.
And the tidal wave is coming this way, so we took a bunch of lines and put it on the Pacific Fisher and everybody jumped aboard the boat -- the other boats and even the processors and everything that were all laying there in Finger Bay.
And we all pulled out of the bay and went out into Sweeper Cove or no, what do they call it, Sitkin Sound, and laid out there until, you know, everybody figured it was all over and done with and we came back in again.
And that -- there was surges out there that had come up high enough. And there’s not much tide out in Dutch -- out in Adak, but it had come up enough so that all the snow that was on the deck of the docks there was gone.
And there was still snow that was on top of the rail caps. So it had just come up and just kind of washed or lapped over that.
And so we could tell that the water had come up that high, but the Pacific Fisher was laying there just fine. We had it tied down real well, so it had just rode up and then gone back down again, I guess, so -- Yeah, that was -- that was something.
But Merrill used to -- how did -- let’s see, how did that go? The house that Leni -- is Leni Buchman’s now, was originally owned and built by Thorvald Jensen. And Thorvald Jensen and his wife, Martha, had a trap up on Nikiski --
JAN YAEGER: A fishtrap? MIKE MILLER: Pardon? JAN YAEGER: A fishtrap? A salmon trap?
MIKE MILLER: A big, big driven salmon trap. He had, and he almost -- I think all of the other driven traps in Cook Inlet, anyway, were all owned by canneries.
And for some reason, I don’t know what the deal was, but he owned this trap himself. And it was really a big producer, did real well. I said Nikiski, but I meant Stariski. And they --
I remember when dad had this Seabee in the summertime when the weather was really nice, he -- we’d fly up there out of Seldovia and fly up to Stariski and he’d land on the beach with that amphibian.
And then we’d get out, mom and myself and my sister would stay there for -- I don’t -- man, I don't know if my sister was born then or not, I don’t remember. But we’d go up there and stay with him for two or three or four days.
And God, the fish that they used to catch up there in that trap. It was really something.
And -- but anyway, I remember one year they made so much money they just couldn’t stand it. So they went out to Seattle and they bought themselves a brand new home for $40,000 and they bought themselves a brand new Buick for $1,500. (Laughter)
And then they -- after that they never did come back to Seldovia again because by ’59 is when the traps went -- sphew, you know.
And -- and so they -- then, oh, I know what they did, yeah. They lost all their money.
And Martha was originally from -- was from Ninilchik. Come from a big Ninilchik family. And so they moved back up to Ninilchik and --
Thorvald used to make the best smoked salmon you could ever imagine. It was just wonderful stuff. So he kept doing that up there.
They moved -- they had a little cabin that they -- I don’t know if they built it or they just got it from somebody.
And -- what do they call -- Deep Creek, down there in the flats at Deep Creek. And he’d buy king salmon and smoke king salmon there and, you know, just did quite well for themselves. I mean, living a very simple life, you know, but they got along just fine.
And then, the last time I saw Thorvald, I think, was in 1971 maybe, ’70 or ’71. And I saw him and Martha there and I gave them a ride down to their place.
They were up -- I’d stopped into the restaurant-bar-liquor store there and they were there, and I took him down to their -- drove them down to his place, and that’s the last time I saw him.
But he was really sick then. He had lung cancer real bad and it had eaten away his -- even eaten away his bones, you know, his ribs and so forth, but he passed away soon after that.
But he was still out and goin’ up and having a drink, you know, unbelievable.
JAN YAEGER: That was in Ninilchik? MIKE MILLER: That was in Ninilchik, yeah. Yeah.
JAN YAEGER: Well, kind of circling back to your dad, you talked about his flying career here, but then and how did he make the transition to being a police officer?
MIKE MILLER: Oh, yeah, so, you know, I don’t -- 19 -- I think it was 1951, ’50 or ’51 was the last year he flew.
And, as I was saying, what happened as far as the flying is concerned is Alaska Airlines came in and cut him down to the point that they didn’t -- couldn’t even do any business anymore. And then soon after that they decided to sell the airplane.
And dad was working for Al Villa. He became Al Villa’s -- Alaska Shellfish Company down there which was -- originally it was a shrimp plant, and then it changed over to a salmon plant.
But dad was his, what do you call him, can loft foreman. And he did that, and then that fall, he -- he started as a cop, I think, yeah, was it August or September he became the chief of police of Seldovia, you know.
And so -- and mom worked at the store and dad got -- mom worked at the store and she made about $250 a month in those days and dad made $350 being the cop.
And then he also was the winter watchman at the first year -- first year was at AYR, Alaska Year Round Canneries. And they had -- they had a -- the superintendent’s house was right on the premises there.
And so we lived there so he could be the watchman there that winter. And we stayed there that year.
And he was that watchman for a couple years and he got $500 for the winter to be the watchman, but then we got to eat all the food that was left over in the commissary. And then he made money by shoveling snow, you know, shovel snow.
So, you know, got along okay, everything was fine. And -- I mean dad -- flying was really important to dad. He just loved to fly, but he just for some -- he just did not want to leave Seldovia.
He wasn’t -- my dad wasn’t the kind of guy that was -- all he wanted to do was get along, you know. He didn’t have any great ambitions or anything.
And when the flying thing wasn’t working out financially for him, you know, you would’ve thought maybe that he would’ve gone someplace else and looked for -- so he could stay in the flying business, but he --
No, he decided he didn’t want to leave Seldovia, I guess, so it must've meant a lot to him.
JAN YAEGER: And so did he have any training to become a police officer?
MIKE MILLER: No, none at all.
I can remember so well him getting this equipment.
He had -- it was funny because -- I don’t know where he got it, but he had a club, a sap, I guess you’d call it.
It was a great big, long, leather thing with a -- with a big heavy ball on the end of -- well, it wasn’t that big, but a little, lead, you know, in this -- wrapped up in this thing.
And it’d been laying around the house there for years. And I don’t know where he got it. It was long before he was a cop.
I think he'd gotten it someplace just so if somebody give him a problem in the airplane he’d knock him over the head or something and calm them down.
But he -- I remember he had that and then he got a sap. He never -- he wouldn’t carry a gun. He would not carry a gun.
He said, "Well, I don’t wanna -- I don’t wanna shoot anybody," you know.
And -- and then they got him this little gas gun. And it was like a gas pen. It was a little pen and it had this little, I don’t know, actions in it so you could shoot this gas out.
Kind of like one of those things you got for scaring bear off or something nowadays.
JAN YAEGER: Okay, it's like a little tear gas thing?
MIKE MILLER: Yeah, it was just a little tear gas thing is what it was. And that -- one -- one year, after he was the cop and he was -- we were staying --
Well, let’s see the first winter we stayed at home, and the second winter we decided to move down to the AYR Cannery and live there.
But that year that we stayed at home, we had these old Celotex ceilings which is made out of the same kind of stuff as like this, you know, but it was big full sheets and for sound deadening and warmth, you know,
And -- but the squirrels got up in our attic and my sister and I shared the same bedroom. She's seven years younger than me, but I slept in the top bunk.
And I remember that we could hear those things up there, scratch, scratch, scratch, scratch, scratch, scratch, scratch, scratch, scratch, you know, and they’d be in the walls.
They’d work their way up the walls and they were all over the house.
And so I remember early one morning I woke up and there was something falling in my face and I looked up and here's this squirrel looking down through the Celotex at me, you know. And dad says, "That’s it, that’s it, we got to get rid of those things."
So we all moved down to the -- down to AYR, down to the other place and he took that gas gun of his and went up there and shot it up into the ceiling and everything and, of course, made the house something terrible, but nobody was living in it then anyway.
So he got them all driven out. He got rid of them. And then where they’d gotten into the walls -- there was no fire blocking in the walls, built old tinderbox house, you know.
They were able to get in under the bottom part of the sheeting and go right up the two by fours up to the top. That’s how they got up there, I guess.
But, that’s how he cleaned them out is with that gas gun.
But, yeah, he, like I say, we got some -- some books there. I’ll have to show ‘em to you. They’re the little things he carried around in his pocket, different problems he’d run across and everything, so it's pretty interesting.
JAN YAEGER: And he was the only police officer or did he have some help?
MIKE MILLER: He was the only one, but Seldovia -- things were a lot different in those days, you know.
In the first place -- yeah, he was the only one. There was no -- there was no deputy or anything like that, but what he would do --
This is before the days of area fishing, and so what would happen is that all these guys from -- at Fourth of July, just before Fourth of July, all these guys would show up from both the Columbia River Gang. They called them the Columbia River Gang.
There was a contingent of them that would put their boats on Alaska Steamship and they’d haul them up to Cordova and they'd fish Cordova and Copper River Flats and so forth first.
And then they’d run their boats from there over to Seldovia, and then they’d be here for the Fourth of July and then they’d fish out here.
And some of ‘em, though -- some of them did go on, instead of stopping here, from the other areas and go to Bristol Bay. They’d haul them over on the -- on the highway. Well, on the road you know, from Lake Iliamna, or over to Lake Iliamna and down.
But the ones that would come in here, I -- I remember, when I was a kid, I remember those guys coming in from Cordova and I mean hundreds of boats.
And they’d -- the harbor would -- I mean we didn’t have a boat harbor in those days. There was just the float one out there.
But they’d come in at -- I remember one time they come in at high tide and it was the middle of the night, you know, or real earl -- there was daylight real early in the morning, but they came in and actually tied up to the boardwalk, you know, like along in front of the Polar Bar and different places like that.
And they all went dry and boats were laying this way and this way and all over, you know, everybody. (Laughter) It was just a -- it was really something.
But they’d come to town and especially these -- these Columbia River boys, they were really a bad bunch. And they just figure, you know, they were big, all big, all well over six feet, all of those guys. And there was -- I think there was six or eight of them.
And they’d come to town. They just figure the town’s theirs. They’re going to take over, you know, and they’d -- hell, they’d just do whatever they want.
And Dad’d -- we -- in those days we didn’t have regular telephones. They had the old -- like the cop’s phone was a short and a long, and you know you’d ring the thing like that and so dad would get this short and long.
Of course, everybody, soon as everybody heard the short and long, everybody -- you’d hear, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, people all over trying to -- (phone ringing)
JAN YAEGER: So we're continuing with Mike Miller and you were talking about the Columbia River Gang. MIKE MILLER: Oh, yeah.
JAN YAEGER: It would come in and kind of take over the town and what your dad would have to do.
MIKE MILLER: Right. And so what he’d do in those days when they were -- start causing problems, he’d just go down to the Linwood or Surf Club or Polar Bar or whichever one they weren’t raising all the hell in, and he’d go over and say, "Hey, I deputize you, you and -- " Locals, you know.
And so the whole bunch of them would get together and they’d go down there and take over. You know, throw them in jail or do whatever and that’s the way they did it.
And when my dad was first a cop, the jail consisted of a little white shack, a clapboard shack that was up on the hill. Well, right across from where the power plant is.
And -- there -- it was just a little white building with a sloped roof and it had a Celotex ceiling and it had, oh, like a shed roof off the back of it like a kalidor (like an arctic entryway attached to the outside of the house, perhaps based on the Russian word, koridor).
And so when they'd throw somebody in jail there, you know, most of them, they were drunk and they just pass out and sleep it off or whatever and they’d get up.
And I remember there was a -- there was a -- oh, what do you call it? Hatch in the ceiling, and if they wanted to get out, they’d just go up to the hatch in the ceiling and then it had another little trap door in the back over the top of the shed roof and they’d knock that open and go out and go back downtown again, you know.
Oh, boy, it was something else.
And then, of course, they built -- finally built the new jail out of block. And then they -- they had a big steel door and they could hold them in there, but he’d get so exasperated.
And they -- not only did they -- that was the jail, but they also used it for the morgue. If somebody died they take them in there and lay ‘em down in there.
I remember as kids, you know, staring in there and seeing somebody’s hair sticking up out of there. (Laughter)
But yeah, so, dad would go down and they’d -- you know, they’d -- he’d round up a bunch of people and they’d go and make them -- make them go to jail or shut up or slow down or go back to the boat or whatever, you know.
And I know one time, he went to confront them himself for some reason first I guess, and this one guy, one of the Columbia River boys -- dad had that sap in his hand,
and the guy grabbed him or some -- maybe one of them come up from behind him. I’m not sure, but one of them grabbed him and actually broke the sap, or the strap, off of his wrist and hit him over the head with it.
And then all the local guys all piled in and tore them off and saved dad, you know, from his problem there. That was -- that was a tough one.
But that’s what they did. And then they had this -- they called it -- you getting a blue ticket out of town, too, that was the other thing.
If somebody raised too much hell around here, well, then the City of Seldovia would put them on an airplane and send them out of here with the instructions don’t come back. We don’t need you here.
And then what was the other one that they -- if somebody drank too much. If their drinking was a real problem like if they went -- if they had family and they didn’t -- wouldn’t take care of their family, and they spent all their money drinking.
What did they used to call that? One was a blue ticket out of town and the other one, oh, 96'd or 86'd.
86 they call it. Yeah, you’re 86'd. That means you can’t have a drink in town, you can’t buy a drink, you can’t do anything so --
JAN YAEGER: So it was a lot of town -- town cooperation, in other words, was pretty important for --
MIKE MILLER: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was something. Yeah, that -- those were some of the highlights that I remember, anyway.
JAN YAEGER: It sounds like an awfully challenging job. Did he enjoy being a police officer?
MIKE MILLER: No, he hated it. My dad -- my dad was one of the nicest -- I mean the best-liked guys.
When he was a pilot, you know, he was just everybody’s friend and everybody’s buddy and got along. He was always laughing and happy.
And he got to be the cop, and immediately fifty percent of the people hated his guts. And he -- it just really bothered him, ‘cause he -- it was important for him to be liked, you know, as an individual.
And I remember he’d come home and he’d just tell mom, you know, about oh, God, I hate this. I just hate this job, but had to make a living some way, so --
And then -- then he went -- then he got throat cancer and he worked --
We didn’t know he had cancer, but that spring his throat started bothering him, a sore throat, but it was just before the busy part of the year and so he continued to work down in the cannery and be the cop all summer long.
And then as soon as the season was over, he and I -- I’d been gone fishing. And I remember I made $924. And so I had money, and dad got his pay check and we -- he and I flew up to Anchorage with Bob Gruber.
And we went to the -- what do you call it -- Anchorage Hotel, which is attached to the Westward Hotel or I don’t know what they call it now. I think it's still the Anchorage Westward.
We got a room in there and I was -- dad -- our doctor at that time was old Doc Romig -- Howard Romig, and he was a good friend of dad’s. Dad and Doc Romig used to hunt together, do all sorts of things together.
But anyway we got up there that time and dad said -- now I had my check and he had his check. Mine was for $900 and some dollars and his was for $3,000 something.
And he says, "Now," he says, "I want you to go across the street." I was fourteen years old.
And he said, "I want you to go across the street over there to the Bank of Amer -- " No, NBA. NB of A. Their main office, or I think their only office for in Anchorage in those days, was there on Fourth Avenue
And he says, "Go over there. Take these checks over there and go ask for -- " Oh, what’s the name of the president of the bank there? Rasmuson, Elmer Rasmuson.
He said, "Now, go over there and just ask somebody for Elmer Rasmuson." And I said, "Okay."
So I stood in line, scared and everything, and I got up to the teller and I says, "My dad told me I have to see Elmer Rasmuson."
And Elmer Ras -- there was a back of the -- opposite from the entry door on the back wall, there was an office back there, it had all the glass and the door was open, you know, like the old bankers always did, you know. You always have to leave the door open.
And so she said, "Oh, let me help you." And so she walked me over there and she said, "Mr. Rasmuson." And he said, "Yes."
And she says, "Well, I have this young man to see you." And so, yeah, I was ushered in there and sat. "What can I -- what can I do for you, young man?"
And I says, "Well, my dad told me to come over and see you and get these checks cashed."
And he said, "Oh, who’s your dad?" And I says, "Dick Miller." "Oh, Dick Miller from Seldovia that lives in Seldovia?" And I says, "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah." "Fine," he says, "well what have you got there?"
So, anyway, he cashed the checks and, you know, put them in a couple of envelopes and so forth. And he said, "Where’s your dad now?" I said, "Well, he's over in the -- in the hotel over here."
And he says, "Well, why isn’t he over?" I says, "Oh, he’s awful sick. He’s got a real bad sore throat." "Okay," he says, "I’ll go over with you." So we went across the street and he went up and, "Hey, Dick, you know, how you doing?" And they talked and dad couldn’t hardly talk, his throat was so messed up.
But I always remember that, you know, Elmer Rasmuson. You know he was quite a man. How many millions and millions of dollars that he’s donated to Alaska, Alaska’s people, you know.
It was something. But he was -- that was something to know someone like that -- I mean, meet somebody like that and under those circumstances.
So anyway, from there I went and got my summer -- or my winter clothes at the Army Navy Store. It was on Fourth Avenue back in those days. I went and got all my clothes there and dad flew Outside.
Well, he saw Doc Romig and Dr. Romig says, no, he says, you better go Outside. So he went out to Virginia Mason in Seattle and I went home. And then we found that he had cancer. It went all downhill from there, you know.
But -- and then I was going to say, he came back up again in -- what month did he -- he came back up on in December, yeah, back in December.
And he said he was going to have to go back down again, but he came home for the holidays. And needed money.
So he saw Jack English, who was the magistrate, and said, you know, so Jack says, "Well, yeah, I can put you back to work as cop." They didn’t have anybody -- a cop at the time for some reason.
So dad went back to work and he went downtown one night on his -- on his rounds, he called it. He just walked around town. In the summertime he rode a bicycle.
But he went down to one of the bars and a local guy down there, I’m not going to mention any names, but he was raising all sorts of hell. And so dad says, "Hey, you know, you got to take it easy." And the guy gave him all sorts of hell. So dad was going to throw him in jail.
So they went outside and started walking him up to jail and the guy told him, he says, "You think you’re something else. You take that badge off and I’ll show you what for or whatever."
The old man, he took his badge off and they got in a fight. And the guy grabbed him by his throat and just about killed the old man, you know.
So, I mean, to this day I don’t know if that had anything to do with it or not, but I mean, we’d had no idea that he was terminal, that he was going to go.
And then when he went back down again, he never came back so. That was always -- that was a tough one to take. Yeah.
JAN YAEGER: Well, I guess, I don’t want to keep you too much longer, but -- MIKE MILLER: No.
JAN YAEGER: Obviously, you came back to Seldovia and decided -- MIKE MILLER: Oh, yeah. JAN YAEGER: -- to raise kids here. MIKE MILLER: Oh, yeah.
JAN YAEGER: What brought you back? What made you want to come back here?
MIKE MILLER: I -- you know, it just -- I don’t know really. I just came back and I just felt so at home here and felt so good to be back and to see all the people that I knew, you know. And, of course, there was a lot of new people, then, too, but I just felt so much at home.
And started fishing out of here and our house became available for sale over here and, you know, I bought it and we just stayed, you know.
I was married to Pam at the time and, you know, we were here for -- until let’s see, from --
I came back in ’75. I bought the place in September of ’75. And she and I were only together until ’78 or ’79.
And then, so, her folks lived up in Anchorage and her dad was retiring and they wanted to move out to Puyallup, Washington and they wanted to sell their house up there and that was really during the tough time of -- for real estate up in Anchorage, you know. Couldn’t -- things weren’t moving very much.
And so we decided to buy their place and so we were -- I was going to live -- move up there, too, but then we got --
I don’t know what happened and our life got separated and so she took the kids and went up there and I stayed down here and the kids came down and stayed with me every time they could and so forth.
And we worked everything out and that’s, you know -- and it's kind of really surprised -- JAN YAEGER: That’s the house you're in now? MIKE MILLER: Pardon?
JAN YAEGER: That’s the house you're in now, that you’ve been in?
MIKE MILLER: Yeah. Yeah. What’s really a surprise to me though is the girls, you know, that they’ve actually decided that they want to live here. Yeah.
Seldovia wouldn’t be the same for me if it wasn’t for them, that’s for sure. But I think I’d still have a hard time leaving. I really would. I mean I --
JAN YAEGER: Yeah. And now you’ve got grandsons here, too.
MIKE MILLER: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And hopefully -- hopefully life will be good for them. I would like to be able to pass on my -- my fishing holdings and so forth to them some time.
But I -- you know, we just don’t know if there’s going to be anything worth anything by the time they get old enough to fish it so --
JAN YAEGER: Right. MIKE MILLER: Hard to say, but --
JAN YAEGER: Well, anything that I should've asked you about that I didn’t that you could think of?
MIKE MILLER: Well, I -- not that I can think of at this point. I'm kinda running out of steam.
JAN YAEGER: You’ve been talking a long time for me, which I really appreciate. This has been a wonderful, wonderful discussion. MIKE MILLER: I hope I didn’t jump around too much. JAN YAEGER: Oh, no.