
Brian Okonek was interviewed on June 6, 2000 by David Krupa at the bunkhouse of Alaska-Denali Guiding in Talkeetna, Alaska. This is the continuation of an interview started on May 31, 2000. In this second part of a two part interview, Brian talks about developing his guiding business, leading guided trips on Denali, the guide's role, and maintaining safety with clients. He also discusses challenges faced on the mountain, issues of altitude, and dealing with illness and injury in the group. Finally, with great warmth Brian shares his love of Alaska, climbing, and outdoor adventure, including dog mushing.
Digital Asset Information
Project: Denali Mountaineering
Date of Interview: Jun 6, 2000
Narrator(s): Brian Okonek
Interviewer(s): David Krupa
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Sections
1) Origins of Alaska-Denali Guiding
2) The evolution of the concession
3) The growth of Denali guiding
4) Deaths and other problems on Denali
5) Safety techniques used by guides
6) Continuation of discussion about safety techniques, and his first years as a guide
7) How he chooses clients
8) Continuation of discussion about choosing clients
9) Guide-client relationships and roles
10) Problems encountered on the mountain
11) The guide's role in the team
12) Continuation of discussion about the guide's role
13) In-camp safety measures
14) The role of the guide in camp
15) The fixed line and the post "14" experience
16) The ideal pace
17) The ideal pace and the process of acclimatization
18) Camping and climbing at high altitude
19) Continuation of discussion about camping and climbing at high altitude.
20) When only certain members can continue and his concerns as a guide at high altitude
21) A scary situation when a client hit the wall on the Summit Ridge
22) Trying to keep his client oriented by talking to him
23) Getting his weakened client down to high camp
24) Getting stuck for nine days at camp near the summit
25) Keeping clients focused when stuck in bad weather
26) Experiences that explain why he climbs
27) How he feels about climbing today
28) Why he loves Alaska
29) Dog sledding in the back country
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After clicking play, click a section of the transcript to navigate the audio or video clip.
Transcript
Section 1: Genet, Ray\ business -- guiding\ Weber, Sep\ mountaineering\ hiking\ rafting\ Far Out Expeditions\ trips -- custom\ Europeans\ road trips\ Brooks Range\ Talkeetna, AK\ Airy North West\ Mt. McKinley -- Denali\ concession -- permits\ Foss, Lauren? -- owner\ transfers -- permit\ National Park Service -- authorization\ Alaska Denali Guiding\ expeditions -- Denali|
Section 2: business -- authorized\ guiding -- Denali\ management -- changes\ policy\ concessions -- history\ Special Use Permit\ Incidental Business Permit\ system -- permit\ business -- incidental\ license\ insurance -- liability\ scrutiny\ businesses -- traditional\ operating -- regularly\ trips -- guided\ Genet, Ray -- Genet Expeditions \ Denali\ guiding -- popularity\ people -- numbers\ momentum\ expedition -- organized\ people -- qualified\ companies -- guiding|
Section 3: use -- safety\ National Park Service\ public\ concern\ regulations -- concessions\ system -- change\ Incidental Business Permit\ concession\ rules -- stricter\ control \ regulation\ safety -- objective\ Genet Expeditions\ climbers -- numbers\ guides -- numbers\ ANILCA\ Denali National Park -- expansion|
Section 4: expedition -- trouble\ clients\ NOLS -- leadership\ techniques -- safety\ reputation\ area -- probed\ boundaries\ student -- died\ Genet Expedition\ client -- pulmonary edema\ Johnson, Harry\ Summit -- death\ parties -- guided\ falls\ weather -- wind\ Stump, Mugs -- guide\ crevasse -- fall\ South Buttress\ Denali -- risks\ record -- safety|
Section 5: concession -- opportunity\ guiding -- business\ philosophy\ climbing -- experience\ guiding -- experience\ techniques -- variety\ safety -- accidents\ respect\ mountain -- conditions\ snow\ weather\ altitude\ risk\ operation\ Denali\ Johnston, Dave\ Wheeler, Toby\ situation -- control\ risk -- decrease\ technique -- teaching\ glacier -- travel\ crevasse -- rescue\ climbing -- snow\ climbing -- ice\ eating\ drinking\ communicating\ preparation\ planning -- flexibility\ changing\ weather -- patience|
Section 6: tie-ins\ areas -- rest\ probe\ belay\ technique -- common sense\ familiarity\ mistakes -- eventual\ bridges -- melted\ teaching -- example\ Mt. Rainier\ client -- supervision\ tools -- best\ career -- climbing\ judgement -- good\ Denali -- expedition\ advertising\ start -- late\ Okonek, Diane\ clientele\ guides -- training\ trips -- leading|
Section 7: clients -- choosing\ fitness -- physical\ training -- routines\ outdoors -- experience\ backpacking -- balance\ Denali\ terrain\ balance\ coordination\ snow climbing\ ice climbing\ ice axe\ self arrest\ balance -- point\ crampons\ conditions -- variety\ ascending\ descending\ rope -- techniques\ systems -- belay\ glacier\ rescue -- crevasse\ rock climbing\ mountaineering -- general\ rope -- techniques\ familiarity\ camping -- winter\ packs -- large\ terrain -- exposed\ weather -- cold\ talk -- phone\ expedition -- Denali\ snow -- conditions\ variable\ movement -- slow\ oxygen|
Section 8: expedition -- reality\ judgement\ trip -- duration\ packs\ backpacking\ climbing\ snowshoeing -- winter\ mountaineering -- apprenticeship\ challenge\ Denali -- surprise\ discipline\ demands -- physical\ camps -- moving\ work\ element -- mental\ people -- management\ guides -- hiring\ climbing\ mountaineering -- judgement\ skills -- people\ guides -- roles\ facilitator\ supervisor\ dictator\ psychologist\ teacher\ friend\ problems -- altitude\ conditions -- snow\ weather\ family -- trouble\ Denali -- cost\ success -- importance\ emotions|
Section 9: guides -- decisions\ decision -- ultimate\ trips -- guided\ trips -- personal\ clients\ decisions -- respect\ conflicts -- personality\ skills -- people\ judgement -- good\ health -- safety\ group\ authority\ organized\ crisis\ responsibility\ encouragement\ Denali\ Mt. Hood\ altitude -- high\ expedition\ teaching\ suggestions\ conditions -- optimal\ camp -- safe\ drinking\ hands -- cold\ feet -- cold\ tools|
Section 10: conditions -- rough\ weather\ team -- rope\ mittens\ goggles\ wind\ visibility\ fatigue -- stress\ altitude\ decisions -- processes\ guides\ day -- normal\ camp -- break\ route -- familiarity\ weather\ cache\ moving\ snow\ wind\ risks\ frostbite\ hypothermic\ decision -- evaluate|
Section 11: eating\ drinking\ cooking -- guides\ stoves -- use\ pots\ water -- snow\ drinks -- morning\ camp -- moving\ gear -- packing\ loads -- community\ clients -- advice\ terrain\ clothing -- layers\ evening -- planning\ terrain\ gear -- emergency\ feet -- problems\ moleskin\ boots\ sleep\ appetite\ hands\ sleeping bag -- drying\ clients\ gear -- serviceable\ tents\ ropes\ wands -- pulling\ camp -- perimeter\ safe zone|
Section 12: leaders -- rope team\ trail -- breaking\ crevasses\ clothes\ groups\ climbing -- teams\ expedition -- Denali\ clients\ guides\ team -- organization\ communication -- verbal\ snowshoe -- break\ problem -- medical\ crevasse -- fall\ teams -- distance\ breaks -- hourly\ eating\ scenery -- introduction\ Windy Corner\ fixed lines\ Mt. Crosson -- history\ conversation\ birds -- migratory\ glaciology\ geology\ stockmarket\ weather -- evaluating\ mountain -- lower\ climbing -- altitude\ fatigue\ breath\ ataxic\ problem -- altitude\ climbing -- safety\ balance\ energy -- efficiency|
Section 13: camping -- area\ probe\ crevasse\ area -- marked\ camp -- design\ energy -- focus\ time -- waste\ winds -- prevailing\ slope -- angle\ snow -- texture\ camps -- available\ tent\ West Buttress\ kitchen\ latrine\ food -- cache\ teams -- organized\ shovel\ snow blocks\ water -- stoves\ routine\ tents\ sleeping bags\ journals\ sun\ boots\ gear -- organize\ dinner\ water bottles\ soup\ relaxing\ chores\ eating\ stories -- sharing|
Section 14: guides -- rounds\ gear -- secured\ gear -- lost\ expedition -- dynamics\ problems\ suggestions\ talk -- group\ individuals\ focus\ West Buttress -- routes\ wall -- psychological\ people -- scared\ Talkeetna, AK\ Denali\ overwhelmed\ basecamp\ camp one\ people -- focused\ pulmonary edema\ altitude -- sickness\ pulmonary edema\ fix line -- barrier\ worry\ clients -- rope team\ crevasse\ terrain -- exposed\ belays -- running\ reputation|
Section 15: fix line -- slope\ season -- early\ icy\ rest\ season -- later\ steps -- easier\ exposed\ nerves\ safety\ Alaska\ Denali -- experience\ altitude\ cold\ pacing\ work -- physical\ mental\ oxygen -- low\ movement\ balance\ rhythm\ acclimatization\ work -- hard\ oxygen -- saturation|
Section 16: guiding -- paces\ strength -- weakness\ exhaustion\ pace -- forcing\ movement -- team\ trail -- time\ fatigue\ steadiness\ slowness -- problems\ weather\ exposure\ pace -- typical|
Section 17: pace -- steady\ needs -- personal\ clothing -- changing\ calories\ appetite\ urinating\ acclimatizing\ fatigue\ balance\ guides -- tents\ down time\ questions -- answering\ high camp\ monitor -- closely\sleep -- fitful\ contact -- close\ goals\ logistics\ West Buttress -- crowd\ rope teams -- waiting\ fixed lines\ cold\ tiring -- psychological\ pace -- steady\ start -- early\ camp -- 16,200 ft\ acclimatization\ altitude -- higher|
Section 18: day -- long\ altitude -- jump\ ridge -- narrow\ camp\ tents\ slope\ platform -- shoveling\ snow -- hard\ wind\ demanding -- physically\ snow caves\ snow -- types\ cold\ dense\ roofs -- sagging\ caves -- durability\ underground -- security\ weather\ caves -- claustrophobia\ caves -- temperature\ tents -- temperature\ security\ ease\ vista -- incredible|
Section 19: evening\ kitchen -- outside\ veranda\ ledge\ view -- lowlands\ West Buttress -- camps\ favorite\ clouds\ lakes\ rivers\ light\ food -- carrying\ comfort\ balance\ steps -- steep\ exposure\ confidence\ camp -- high\ weather -- change\ preparation\ walls -- snowblock\ winds -- strong\ camp -- secure\ appetite\ sleep\ summit -- attempt\ timing\ team -- strength\ acclimatize\ members\ descent\ food\ waiting\ weather -- break\ storms -- duration|
Section 20: camp\ group -- supervision\ health -- changes\ weather -- change\ summit -- altitude\ guide -- supervision\ altitude -- ceiling\ high camp\ summit -- ridge\ expedition\ route -- problems\ concern -- level\ altitude -- problems\ group -- responsible\ safety\ weather\ labor -- digging\ blocks -- cutting\ camp -- maintenance\ effects -- individual\ deterioration -- rapidity\ altitude -- effects|
Section 21: disaster\ guiding\ problems -- diagnosis\ weather -- adverse\ decisions\ moment -- crux\ dangerous -- incident\ disaster\ manner -- timely\ member -- strong\ climber\ summit day\ camp -- helping\ summit -- halfway\ pace -- normal\ camp -- return\ continue\ ?, John\ wall -- hit\ face -- pasty\ goggles -- eyes\ summit -- proximity\ descent|
Section 22: balance -- help\ encouragement\ eating -- drinking\ will -- deteriorating\ pulmonary edema\ fatigue\ breath\ coughing\ cerebral edema -- dying\ exhausted\ Denali Pass\ legs -- crumpled\ parka\ slope -- steep\ pass\ traverse\ Harper Glacier\ high camp\ slope -- angle\ crevasses --few\ terrain -- easy|
Section 23: West Buttress\ Denali Pass\ traverse -- steep\ situation -- good\ evening\ weather -- windy\ Muldrow Glacier\ pulmonary edema\ gear -- sleds\ sleeping bag\ pads\ ?, John\ tent\ soup -- hot\ sleep\ traverse -- continued\ Karstens Ridge\ Wonder Lake\ lesson -- important\ problem|
Section 24: guides -- risks\ altitude -- adjustment\ trouble\ client\ crampons\ altitude -- high\ problems -- variations\ susceptibility\ physiology -- interest\ desire\ problems -- severe\ psychology\ difficulty\ conditions -- extreme\ activity\ focus\ storms -- stuck\ mind -- wanders\ thinking\ goal -- commitments\ family\ work|
Section 25: schedule -- focus\ chores -- organize\ breakfast -- exercise\ altitude -- lassitude\ muscle -- tone\ difficulty -- increasing\ storms -- long\ cold\ oxygen -- lack of\ sleep\ deteriorating -- tired\ life -- hard\ weather -- breaks\ decision -- group|
Section 26: wall -- snow block\ sun -- clouds\ mesmerized\ letters\ details\ glacier\ conversations\ experiences -- fleeting\ goal -- amazing\ immerses\ routine -- life\ traffic -- work\ grind -- daily\ centered\ conflicts -- complicated\ personalities -- flare|
Section 27: clients -- past\ Alaska Range -- expeditions\ people -- more\ guided -- individual\ National Park Service -- issues\ numbers -- management\ activity\ waste\ direction -- education\ public\ environment\ safety\ problems -- increase\ degradation\ rescues\ money -- spent\ self regulating\ Earth -- people\ Denali -- regulations\ pre-registration\ dollars\ numbers -- limits\ guide\ season -- short\ overcrowded\ route -- large\ bottlenecks\ safety -- issue\ rope teams\ West Buttress -- wilderness\ conditions -- harsh\ manage|
Section 28: experience -- wilderness\ Alaska -- fortunate\ backyard -- gigantic\ attraction -- masses\ trekking -- remote\ Okonek, Diane\ dog sled -- trips\ country -- pristine\ remote -- people|
Section 29: dog sled -- trail\ routes -- traditional\ wilderness -- trackless\ traffic -- little\ village -- people\ land -- closer\ subsistence -- roots\ people -- Native|