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Roy David, Sr., Part 2

This is a continuation of an interview with Roy David, Sr. on December 10, 2013 by Barbara Cellarius and Leslie McCartney at the school in Tetlin, Alaska. In this second part of a two part interview, Roy talks about hunting, hunting regulations, and changes he has seen in the environment and wildlife. Roy also tells a traditional story about two girls getting lost and suffering the consequences of not listening to advice given to them by Chickadee. He emphasizes the important lesson of this story that shows what can go wrong when you disobey.

Digital Asset Information

Archive #: Oral History 2013-14-02_ PT.2

Project: Wrangell-St.Elias National Park
Date of Interview: Dec 10, 2013
Narrator(s): Roy David, Sr.
Interviewer(s): Leslie McCartney, Barbara Cellarius
Videographer: Leslie McCartney
Transcriber: Joan O'Leary
Location of Interview:
Funding Partners:
National Park Service
Alternate Transcripts
There is no alternate transcript for this interview.
There is no slideshow for this person.

After clicking play, click on a section to navigate the audio or video clip.


Sheep hunting area

Pass from Tetlin to Mentasta

Use of salmon

Impact of the road and the establishment of Wrangell-St. Elias National Park

Changes in climate, the land, and animal populations

Traditional story about kids getting lost and surviving hardship

Part of story where kids get help from chickadee and importance of being obedient

Part of story where girls take wrong trail and meet old man who turns out to be the devil

Part of story where girl gets help from fox and old woman

Part of story where old man runs into old woman and she destroys him

Part of story where girl returns to her family

Moral of the story about how good things happen to those who listen and obey

Click play, then use Sections or Transcript to navigate the interview.

After clicking play, click a section of the transcript to navigate the audio or video clip.


BARBARA CELLARIUS: Midway. So we’re wondering if you've gone down south in here?

ROY DAVID: Oh, yeah. Right here -- here -- lake right here.


ROY DAVID: And it’s not too far from -- they call -- should be --

BARBARA CELLARIUS: So this is Nabesna River.

ROY DAVID: Oh, no, not Nabesna. Let’s see, right here, yeah.

BARBARA CELLARIUS: So that’s Northway.

ROY DAVID: Northway, round here.


ROY DAVID: Right here. It don’t show it. It's not too far from Last Tetlin.


ROY DAVID: They call -- Lot of mountain.

BARBARA CELLARIUS: Uh-huh. Did you ever go down here or more in this area?

ROY DAVID: Mostly for this area.

BARBARA CELLARIUS: In that area there?

ROY DAVID: Yeah, for -- for hunting. Like some time -- some time we use for --

BARBARA CELLARIUS: Did you ever hunt sheep?

ROY DAVID: Sheep, I give up.

BARBARA CELLARIUS: You give up on sheep?

ROY DAVID: Not just -- just too much climbing, you know. I can’t do it like you young people.

BARBARA CELLARIUS: Did you do it when you were young?

ROY DAVID: Yeah, I’ll do it lot, yeah. A lot because --

BARBARA CELLARIUS: When you were young?

ROY DAVID: Yeah, because I -- I can climb up lot of mountain, you know. Higher, just like that some time and you got to climb up -- climb up until you get your breath up go on -- on --on.

But it's getting steeper, steeper, but when you shot or kill one of the sheep coming down, boy, I tell your leg can kill you.


LESLIE McCARTNEY: Coming down is much harder than going up.

ROY DAVID: Man, I tell you with big pack, too, I tell you.

BARBARA CELLARIUS: So did you -- were you in these mountains then when you -- ROY DAVID: Yeah. BARBARA CELLARIUS: -- were hunting sheep?

ROY DAVID: Yeah, over like that, yeah. Every one of them back there they call Alaska Range.

BARBARA CELLARIUS: And your -- Eva she was telling us about a pass that goes to Mentasta?

ROY DAVID: Yeah, yeah.

BARBARA CELLARIUS: How did you go to Mentasta?

ROY DAVID: Mentasta, yes, from Tetlin Lake.

BARBARA CELLARIUS: So here’s Tetlin Lake.

ROY DAVID: Yeah, okay.

LESLIE McCARTNEY: Just draw it with the marker.

ROY DAVID: This was at Mail Creek.


ROY DAVID: Go to Mail Creek.


ROY DAVID: This is how from there.

BARBARA CELLARIUS: Down -- down where the road is now.

ROY DAVID: That’s right place where especially -- I do some -- a lot of trapping, too.


ROY DAVID: Yeah. Lots of -- land been used quite a bit.

BARBARA CELLARIUS: And I wanted to ask you if you ever ate salmon?

ROY DAVID: Salmon. I never seen no salmon. Once in a great while in Tetlin what I do remember one time they catch salmon. That’s it.

BARBARA CELLARIUS: Uh-huh. So very rare.


BARBARA CELLARIUS: Did you -- sometimes I heard that -- did anyone trade salmon? Did you ever trade whitefish for salmon?

Did you get salmon from some place else?

ROY DAVID: Some place else, yeah. Yeah. They trade us -- we can trade yes.

BARBARA CELLARIUS: So who did you trade with?

ROY DAVID: We don’t trade I don’t think they trade but some in Mentasta might do it yet, but -- BARBARA CELLARIUS: Uh-huh.

ROY DAVID: -- but not in Tetlin, yeah. Sometime those pilot named Clarence the one that is hunting our land he bring some salmon in.


ROY DAVID: Not -- his no more. He’s too old, I guess.

BARBARA CELLARIUS: Just like a present?

ROY DAVID: Yeah. Too old right now. I think his name Clarence. And Ill's (phonetic), too, his name, that’s the guy used to hunt for us -- hunting guide for us down -- take care of our land.

He’d patrol around for -- our land, you know. So --

BARBARA CELLARIUS: So for the village land?

ROY DAVID: Yeah, yeah, so he patrol same time when somebody other hunter he report in, you know.

He tell them to -- tell them to go. It's not your land he tell them. He explained to them, yeah.

So everything work pretty good.

BARBARA CELLARIUS: So did he have an agreement with the council?


BARBARA CELLARIUS: That -- that he -- ROY DAVID: Uh-huh, yeah.

BARBARA CELLARIUS: -- could do that?

ROY DAVID: Yeah, and right now they got golden mine about round here right now.

BARBARA CELLARIUS: So here’s -- this is the -- this is that park and this is the Tetlin Land up here?

ROY DAVID: Yeah. That’s the way they got the -- got the first time right now I see road to right down. It's the first time I see the road go through. This is what I talk about. I see change.

It change because we don’t see no grizzly bear like we used to, you know.

And we don’t see no moose like hardly like before, too, because the road right there, you know. All they disturb them, you know. That’s what happened.

BARBARA CELLARIUS: So is that -- is that this road or the road to the village?

ROY DAVID: To this road.

LESLIE McCARTNEY: The Alaska Highway?



LESLIE McCARTNEY: So when the park was established, Roy, did that change anything for the village?

ROY DAVID: What’s that?

LESLIE McCARTNEY: When the park became a park --

ROY DAVID: Yep. BARBARA CELLARIUS: This down here is national park. ROY DAVID: Yeah. Uh-huh.

LESLIE McCARTNEY: Did that have any bearing on your community at all?

ROY DAVID: I don’t see no hardly bear -- that -- that -- no, it used to be grizzly bear, about four, five, six of them on mountain, you know. The more -- hardly sometime one, hardly.

Sometime if we lucky we see two, one hardly. Used to be forest -- eight, nine, ten we see no more.

You know they got little stream down there the kids get those any kind of fish, you know. They used to go down for roots, you know, like Tsuu.

That's the one they used it. And no more.

LESLIE McCARTNEY: And you think it’s because of the highway?

ROY DAVID: That’s because highway, yeah. LESLIE MCCARTNEY: Right.


LESLIE McCARTNEY: Right. What about the climate or the land, is it changing down there, too?

ROY DAVID: It's -- That’s kind of like a chance, yes. Sometime I don’t know what they try to way some time maybe oil too, you know, or maybe some kind of gas or maybe some kind of gas spilling or oil spilling, you know, like a little, even if one gallon or one quart is spilled,

it could hurt a lot -- a lot of te -- like muskrat could be damaged you know. It could be damaged by grayling. It could be damaged by whitefish, you know. It could be anything.

Like one they throw away like oil, it kill a lot of animal. The small fish I talk about, yeah.

BARBARA CELLARIUS: So I had a question. You talked about how the lake was changing. There was more meadow. ROY DAVID: Yeah.

BARBARA CELLARIUS: Are there any changes in the number of muskrat?

ROY DAVID: I don’t see no muskrat because that used to be Tetlin Lake used to be lots of muskrat. I do remember.


ROY DAVID: Now, you don’t see it hardly any more.

BARBARA CELLARIUS: So not so many muskrat.

ROY DAVID: Not nothing.

LESLIE McCARTNEY: Any push-ups then?

ROY DAVID: No push-up, no. If you -- if you go plane right now. BARBARA CELLARIUS: Uh-huh.

ROY DAVID: You going to see a lot of change, yeah. It's only this -- we handle it -- we manage this. It's the only place around here we manage it because we don’t let them in, you know.


ROY DAVID: It be managed because limit -- we go by limit.

And this guy’s hunter they just go and clean up.

LESLIE McCARTNEY: I was going to say -- are there larger game hunters? Is that effecting the -- how is that effecting things?

ROY DAVID: Well, I think the hunters, we do know that when they kill moose I hear they throw away meat, you know.

And it's not right, you know. And when they kill bear, they just leave it there too, you know. That’s what really hurting.

So we should put stop to them. How? Fish & Game could help us. State Trooper.

Because we can explain to them just like I explained to you. Like how you see a change, you know. How it changed the big lake and how it changed the land and -- and about road, you know.

It could be stopped, you know.

Or, let’s just say like this because Tetlin people are not smarting people are they help like -- like equal -- like equal person -- like the person who gets stuck they help too, you know. They help them.

They help them that if they get low, they help them, too, you know.

And if they run out of grub, they know they can help them with fish, moose, you know, roots, berries, everything they can do --

they can do because I rather not to see it destroyed. This is what I’m --

LESLIE McCARTNEY: What about the weather, Roy, has it changed since you were a little boy? The weather?

ROY DAVID: Oh, I tell you the weather is -- tell you terrible, too.

LESLIE McCARTNEY: Is it? What’s changed?

ROY DAVID: Well, those I see a lot of change since 1989.


ROY DAVID: When archeology does someplace, they handle -- They try control the weather which I really disagree with it that thing. You see, I don’t know how they control weather.

Look at Tanacross how damaged -- how damaged are they. It all destroy. BARBARA CELLARIUS: From that storm?

ROY DAVID: Because, yeah, storm. You see when they control weather when they release weather they don’t know where it going to head to.

It damage Dry Creek. It damage a lot of place I see.

I used to work with them, too. I back away from them, because I don’t want to -- like to work. I don’t want to get blamed. Yeah.

So, we got time to talk about we got the time to say things about which is right and which is wrong, you know. We can.

We got power to do it. We got a lot of chances to say it because -- to prove that the land been used, you know.

Prove land since it was in my time all the way through. I hate to see it destroyed. Yeah. Any more question?

LESLIE McCARTNEY: Maybe you could tell us the old time story. You said that sometimes you tell old time story from your mother and your father and your grandmother.

Can you tell us one?

ROY DAVID: Okay. The short story.


ROY DAVID: The first time about -- Usually they tell story about October and November, you know, it’s only from my dad and mom told me. BARBARA CELLARIUS: Uh-huh.

ROY DAVID: But since -- LESLIE McCARTNEY: It's just in --

ROY DAVID: For help you know like help I’d be glad to help about this history story about -- about to be careful -- be work.

That's just like be work and get idea to, you know, get idea how --

how to survive to -- like hardships, to survive them.

Let's just say about good and bad, you know. How to survive.

This is what I'm going to tell a story about. In the village like long time ago like my great grandfather and great grandmother faced them days -- the village.

Good village. Anyway, the young girl like her and a young man they see each other quite a long time they've been married and they been married by the chief.

Anyway they saw -- so on and on they have all this. They got good home, good trapping, good hunting ground. They got everything good -- good ground. They survive pretty good.

On the bad time when they got -- when do -- like it do in the wintertime, you know, like we don’t have home like around here, you know, but some way they survive.

But this young man, older enough, and his wife was older enough, they got girl.

They brought the girl -- she brought the girl, I should say that the lady brought the girl, they call older.

And the younger one, brother. Next one brother.

The next youngest one, girl again, that’s the youngest girl.

So anyway they grow up in the village with their -- their parents, their grandmother and grandfather.

Oh, this is a story about old-timer story I'm going to tell you. That’s the one.

The girl was getting older. Pretty soon she's probably around eleven years old, and the youngest brother was ten years old, and pretty soon that younger sister was eight years old.

They both, three of them, playing together all the time. A good time. They love each other, you know, because they're from family, you know, and they always obey their parents, too.

They're really wonderful kids. They are good kids -- wonderful kids. They obey their mom. They obey their dad.

They obey their grandmother, grandfather. Even people start noticing them. They’re really good kids.

One day they're playing like they do in the summertime like summertime, you know, they’re playing in the village. They all three of them they playing.

Pretty soon a butterfly arrive. You know, these butterfly -- a big one, you know.

They call butterfly. This butterfly they call that thing that go around.

Pretty soon the older sister want to catch that butterfly, but she couldn’t catch it. Anyway, she just go like that.

She run behind with her youngest brother join -- the sisters. They try to catch that butterfly, but butterfly still keep going -- keep going.

Pretty soon the youngest sister saw -- well, I'm going to play with too is I got to catch that butterfly before them.

They start catching so on and on all day they play -- they play with butterfly.

Pretty soon on and on they -- pretty soon they going up, up, up. They don’t know on a mountain they go.

And pretty soon they go down, down, down, down, down. They still -- still try catch.

So next deepest one they still try to catch that butterfly -- three of them. They laugh.

All kinds of noise -- they make all kind in the wood -- down, down again.

Pretty soon they're on a flat long away. Pretty soon they going up and down, pretty soon it begint to get dark, you know -- so it started getting dark.

Pretty soon the sister get suspicious. "What are we doing here?" she told them.

Her youngest brother -- and youngest brother say, "I don’t know." We play with those butterfly. They tell each other.

Pretty soon the youngest sister said, "Let’s go back." By the time it's a little dark, you know. Just --

They don’t know where they’re at all suddenly. They don’t know where they're at.

That butterfly lead them the wrong place, you know. But it's a long way -- how many hill? Three big hill they go through.

And it begin to be pitch dark. Pretty soon her sister -- older sister come to her youngest brother and she told this youngest brother to grab that youngest one.

This old -- hold this child, let's go -- and go any way they say.

So they keep walk, walk long way walk, and pretty soon it was really pitch dark.

Well, suddenly she found the trail, the older sister.

She find the trail, but they don’t which way trail.

So she told her youngest brother we find trail, but with her language she said, "Let us stop, you know, overnight."

They scared they say, too dark. Pretty soon, look like someone coming, you know, like some -- my footprint.

Sure enough man coming -- man coming. Man meet them.

What are you kids doing around here he told them? They build fire, you know.

She telling the truth. She tell him while we play from the village we follow those butterfly, with the language, you know.

That's what lead us the wrong way he say.

And that man was kindest man they run into him. His name Chickadee. That bird named Chickadee.

You know, Chickadee told 'em, this is where I from. You go that same trail that one you find, you go trail, but there are two trail down there.

One wider trail and one narrow trail. You follow that narrow trail you lead back to your mom and dad, he told them.

Pretty soon, they start walking long way walk to get here until they met those two trail by the time Chickadee left them, you know -- left them.

Chickadee tell them to stay on narrow trail, then you could find your parents back he told them.

Pretty soon they -- I don’t know how long until -- until they hit -- they found the two trail open -- one wider trail -- beautiful trail they call.

You could see clear. And one narrow trail, that's where they're at.

That’s -- no, that youngest brother next to that girl -- there’s two girls I talk about. There’s two girls that are the ones that get lost.

The youngest brother working with his mom and dad down there hauling wood, you know. That the two girls the one that got lost. Youngest sister.

Anyway, Chickadee told them where to go, you know. And when they got the two trail -- end of the trail -- the sister look at the youngest sister and the younger sister look at the older sister.

And the younger sister say, my older sister -- they call Shaadeh (older sister) -- Ts'iga~a~gn, they call. The chickadee, Ts'iga~a~gn. Told us Ta~y’tsuul , Tsu'de (Athabascan phonetic) that means let’s go to narrow trail, he tell us.

That lead us back to mom and dad. No, this is trail wide open they say. They start argument, argument, argument.

Pretty soon they start -- pretty soon the older sister get mad, you know, disappoint, because the youngest one disobey, you know.

Pretty soon she start fighting with this younger sister, you know. The younger sister beats her up and beat 'em up.

Pretty soon she gets less scary you know and puts on -- "Sister, let us go narrow trail. That's what Chickadee tell us. This way we going to get lost on again." She told --

No, no, no she start beats her up bad this time. She pull her hair -- pull her hair to the wider trail, but the younger girl no this way.

She still keep trying, but she hurt bad.

Pretty soon she pull her hair. It's really hurting. In time she get beat -- beat up, kicked -- everything.

And that’s where she got scared, so she join her older sister. They go down wider trail.

They go wider trail. They got lost down there again. And on and on they go wider trail. I don’t know how long. Pitch dark. And the older sister spot some guy, good tent, you know.

And she -- The tent was -- she could see smoke come out on. There’s someone in there.

And pretty soon even eye -- even dog eye, you know, barking at them.

He was close by, and pretty soon they holler who’s there and that old man come out.

That old man what they call Ts’ant’aay (devil). Ts’ant’aay, which means devil, that’s what they call devil. And he told -- he told those -- the older sister why are you come this way?

They tell him again just butterfly lead us away so -- lead us away so we get lost.

Well, I got tent over there. You could sleep over there. The younger sister got suspicious.

It's -- It don’t look right, you know. It don’t look right. It a lot --

So she can’t sleep, but her older sister deep sleep because she’s tired, you know, long way walk, you know, play a lot of times. She sleep.

Really snore away, snore away, you know. So that younger sister don’t sleep, but meantime that old man make big fire, you know, and he put the sharp spear, you know, like sharp spear -- make a sharp spear really red hot all night long and all night long.

Make big fire, big fire, big fire on and on while those two -- those two sleeping he check on them, but the youngest one pretend sleep.

The youngest one pretend, but the oldest one really sleep -- deeply sleep. Pretty soon --

Pretty soon he took out sharp spear, you know, it's really red hot.

Pretty soon, take her blanket sure enough that older sister deep sleep she just put -- take her pants down and he just put it right into her -- don’t take long that sister die.

She did die. Take it out -- long time he put that spear under his rear and take it out slowly and put on another one he was going to kill that young one, too, but young girl is still awake.

On and on, it's not right.

Pretty soon he was -- he make it spear real hot. He try to kill that youngest girl, too, but she get up.

"What are you doing?" she tell him. I check see if you asleep she tell she lying story, you know, lying.

And on and on like that he did try. Pretty soon daylight come up and that young girl get up.

She probably eat, too, I guess around with that old man.

And that old man say, "Your sister still sleeps, so I let her sleep, you know." He’s lying to him -- lying to her.

Pretty soon that younger sister say -- She call him grandpa, see what he say. Grandpa, I need to go bathroom, you know.

That old man get suspicious, too. Smart, you know.

If I let that girl go, she might run away, you know.

So the devil told her that you could go to the bathroom in my hand he told her.

And that girl -- the younger said no, we don’t do that. We get training. My mom and dad train us not to do that.

Out in the woods, she said. Well, I'm going to tie a rope around you. So she -- they did -- be able to tie a rope around that young girl. And pretty soon, "Make it a little longer," she told him.

Just like whip they call this a whip, spider -- spider things, you know, like a -- On and on, and pretty soon went inside -- inside woods.

She don’t even go back to him. She put that whip onto stump, and she talked to stump.

Ca -- He tell him that's been my partner. Stump. Stump answer. He says stump, "Yeah, what you need?"

Yanats’ehdeeł, that's mean let's move that rope.

Stump say, "Why?" But that they will try kill me -- kill my -- kill my sister already. And that stump say, "Okay. I try to do my best."

So I put that whip around that stump, and stump keep moving that rope, and the devil thought that girl still out in the woods, you know, with that rope.

You know, he's -- hang on. So by the time she run, run, run, run, run. Here we go again.

Gee, that young girl -- eight years old think about. Run, run, run, run until farther, farther on she run.

Pretty soon that old man get suspicious. What’s the matter that girl don’t -- gone that long?

He went outside, peek out from his tent -- he say, "How come you’re gone too long, little girl?"

And that stump answer back. She "shyiich’etkaayh," that means I get diarrhea. That’s what the girl told him, you know. And stump say it same way.

Pretty soon, on and on still that girl run, run, run, run. All suddenly bad time --

bad times because she go through out in the woods, around the lake, around the mountain, on top mountain she run until farther on

they call Tthiitu’, that's means, Tthiitu’, that means Tanana River or Yukon -- Yukon River.

I don’t know which one -- the far she run, but the good happen. She see some kind animal.

They call them. Tanacross language they call Naageddh, and around here No~o~gaay. Fox -- they call fox.

By the time she -- she holler at the fox. "Fox bring your tail across for me." And fox say, "Why can I do that?"

And the youngest girl say the devil kill my sister.

All -- she tell all story. She tell all what the man -- fox might follow, okay.

So fox put his tail over Tanana River and she went across.

That the story. Really true story.

And she went -- and she got those fish, you know, like what they call -- like they got the one sharp thing.

Just like Eskimo stuff, Ch’iitthoo (scraper), they call. That’s the one Ch’iitthoo, that came with that one.


ROY DAVID: Yeah. And other one they got rock -- any kind of rock, you know.

Rocks -- she got stone, you know, like stone -- like round stone, you know, that the one she got and Ch’iitthoo, they call. Two.

And she talk with fox. I gave you this Ch’iitthoo. And Tthee, too. That’s rock, Tthee, they call.

I gave you two. The fox say, "Why?" Devil don’t take long he going to come -- follow. That’s why.

"What I going to do?" he says. Take you across -- take your tail across just like when you did it to me, but he go -- when he goes right in the middle you drown him, she say.

So the devil got suspicious all of a suddenly. How long that girl in bathroom?

I’m going to check it he says.

So he went in where that rope, he just check it. No, no that girl already long, long gone.

Pretty soon he start hah, you know, hee, that's what he says.

Nt’atihhaał, that means I’m going to catch you up, with his language.

Nt’atihhaał,he start run -- run behind that girl. He smelled where that girl running.

On and on he’s running until the -- on Tanana River. That where he stop, the place where he see fox again.

He called No~o~gaay, bring Ch’iitt -- across and that No~o~gaay tell him, the fox tell him why?

I need to go across. I can’t do it he said, but devil know what fox eat -- eating you know.

I going to give you that if you take me across. "Okay," he said. Fox knew that’s where he going to eat, you know.

So he took his tail over across Tanana River, and he start walking across it.

He start moving. Pretty soon, argh (sound of falling in). He thought he's drowned. From there he start run.

Before he gave this -- one of those two rock and a -- yeah, rock, he told if devil going to catch you up drop --

drop this Ch’iitthoo down and it going to become lake. You going to be way out of sight and he's going to be across. That’s the plan.

And if -- another one if he really -- if he catch you up, you drop the stone and it become mountain -- big mountain.

That’s how pretty soon devil will run catch up fox unless he drop and it become the lake. And he’s way out of sight. Still run.

On and on pretty soon next time really catch up the fox again.

And by and by, he did catch up that fox again, so fox drop that stone and it become big mountain -- big mountain. That’s how he escaped.

And pretty soon, by and by that girl still run. On and on that girl still run -- youngest girl until the good -- she run into the good.

She see something -- tent again. But she look inside and nobody around.

And pretty soon she start holler, "Anybody staying around here? Anybody around here?"

Pretty soon an old lady was almost kneel down and sleep, you know, that old lady -- old lady.

Pretty soon that she got voice though. She said it’s only me I stay here -- only me I stay here, but my boys go hunting that’s all -- ts’aant’aay, I stay -- means I stay alone.

Can I stay? She told 'em "ts’aant’aay sh_____ shdhehxe~e~," she tell her -- that means the devil kill my older sister and try to kill me that’s why I escape from them.

I gave those Ch’iitthoo and stone to that fox. That's the one that helped me across.

And that old lady still kneel down. He tell 'em, "I got the fire sack out there -- go inside sack" -- gun sack (might mean gunny sack?), you know -- look like a gun sack.

She went in there, tie himself around, safe side. Not very long fox run by -- fox run by but not even -- not too long here come that old man running -- old man.

Pretty soon he stop, he see -- he smelled -- he smelled that that girl, just where that girl went into that tent. That’s how he knew.

And pretty soon he say, "Anybody stay here?" Nobody answer. He start holler, "I know somebody stay here."

Pretty soon old lady say, told him, "Me alone. Is all I stay." The devil tell him, "You lie. I smell.

The girl escaped from me running right here. I smell it."

"Maybe a little while ago I hear that somebody run by, maybe her." "No, right here," he say.

But devil came in. He got no business to come in, but he still come in.

He saw that the old lady still kneel down. Maybe -- Suddenly devil say, getting mad, you know. He start getting mad.

He said, "I’m going to show you some bad stuff from me," he told them. That good old lady say, "How can I going to see you? I never lift my head up to you. I don’t know who you are," he told him.

Pretty soon devil say, "I don't show you bad things yet. You show me something but "Shka’udahdełaan ts’on’," that means it bounce away to go back to you he told.

Pretty soon that old lady "Doot’eey shaa dahadliiyh," that means there's been nobody visit him -- nobody come around except you come around come into the house. Why you come in with a bad stuff, he tell him.

Right here good stuff.

Pretty soon that old lady, he said, "Nts’a~’ xatjak," that means I’m going to show off to you.

Pretty soon that old lady get up, really wrangled up old lady, you know. Her face can’t even see -- eye different looking. Turn around and look at devil.

Devil fall apart. Melt away.

All everything drop pretty soon. Pretty soon everything drop from.

And Shchaay (my granddaughter), that's mean grand -- granddaughter come out from that sack. "Dutch’edhekxe~e~," that means already kill him (I already killed him).

She get out. Sure enough. Head -- neck -- hand -- arm everything.

Pretty soon, she told 'em throw out all bone out there -- tell 'em what's -- what do you want be a like.

Cranberries, blueberries, you know, roots, tsuu, you know, all of them.

Pretty soon, except that the ones that we go show. That’s the truth. Devil, they call devil prick -- that’s roots stolen.

That's the one that (inaudible). They all become. All become -- this is all bad stuff gone. That’s good.


ROY DAVID: That’s good the all bad stuff going from there. She introduce herself that old lady.

She say I’m Stso~o~ kelahdzeey, that means I’m Ottle, spider woman.

But my kids hunting. But when they come back, I know them, they want married you, I know it.

But young girl's deeply appreciate, so she don’t care, you know.

She appreciate because, you know, it's safe side -- safe side she stay with that spider woman long.

Finally, those two spider boys came back and she -- she called them and they say, yes, that's we came back from hunting. We brough -- we kill moose, they told 'em.

It’s really good they say.

And she later on after they ate that she say she got one girl down there on the sack.

Sure enough two brother they want married to the young lady -- girl, but that old spider woman said no you can’t marry because she's only youngest girl -- eight -- she's probably eight years old -- five years old. We don’t know, you know.

You can’t do it. Boy, they mad, but they got to obey what the old lady told them.

And later on, she stay with long time with old lady, but all of a suddenly she became worry they say -- miss her sister, her brother, mom and dad, you know.

And all of a suddenly worriness she start cry and that old lady knew it.

Again, she told with her language, "Shchaay ndaadz ts’iho~da~y" (grandchild, why you worry?), means how come -- how come granddaughter, why you worry?

But the -- but the youngest girl she told 'em, "The reason why I worry because I miss my sister the one -- the one devil kill."

"And I miss mom and dad," she say, "and my brother. A life down there some place."

But you go outside, take -- those two young men went out hunting again, you know. So take the stick -- the one down there. My stick. Take it down there -- the big stone out there -- big roll stone.

Touch. She did touch and the thing rolled -- rock roll away and look down she told them. She looked down.

She see her lovely brother, mom and dad down there walking down there.

She feels really glad to see the mom and dad. But how I going to go down there she tells the spider woman.

I’m not going to take you down there, but you -- you got to go down there she tell 'em. Me I’m up here she tell 'em.

But how you do with that Tth’eeniyaa, that's mean whip on and on he do like. Reach down to that earth.

It don’t reach down. Do some more you know. Second time it don’t reach, yet.

On and on just lots of work. Finally, she get tired and put on. It finally reached down -- down whip -- down to earth from sky.

And that old lady told them go back down to your brother and go back down to your mom and dad.

They worry for you, too. They miss you, too.

She was going to go down, but all of a suddenly, you know, she start cried. She miss that old lady, too. That's precious love, you know.

And that old lady said don’t -- don’t have heart over me. I know it -- I know you worry she told her, but you going to see your mom -- you going to see your dad and brother, but you're not going to see your sister for a long time, she say.

Some day you might see 'em, he say.

And that girl come down -- way come down -- right place where her mom’s and dad and brother hauling wood.

And she came down and she start happiness just to be -- to see parents again, but she see a lot of different.

Her dad was got no hair -- burn up. Her mom, too. All burn up. Them days, they missed their loved ones they burned their head, you know. That’s how.

Pretty soon this brother got long with, you know, long with his --carrying wood to the camp, you know, where they stay, you know, inside maybe village, I don’t know.

In the village they start carrying around -- pretty soon her sister start putting wood backward, you know.

Boy, this brother say what -- who bother me, you know, he says.

On and on he's mad, mad, mad. Pretty soon she grab -- pretty soon -- before that he'd noticed her sister -- really sister.

Right there he holler, he say, "Mom, dad, my sister out there."

His dad pushing him on already -- his dad -- daughter, you know. His mom. They run. Sure enough the youngest sister, but no older sister.

You see Chickadee is right. Take the narrow trail. But the wider trail that girl die because she disobey and the young girl escaped because she obeyed Chickadee.

That's why good -- good happen. That’s a long story, but it will help you -- anybody.

Help white people, Eskimo people, black people, Native people, Eskimo -- I don’t care who.

That story, the true story this one. That’s the story.

LESLIE McCARTNEY: Thank you very much, Roy.

BARBARA CELLARIUS: Thank you. LESLIE McCARTNEY: That’s a beautiful story, thank you.

ROY DAVID: Maybe that’s why they call Chickadee, maybe God words, too. We don’t know.

That’s what -- that’s what the history story -- T’oodi~ht’aay, that's means God. Wushyee’, that's means his son.

That's what story. The story I tell you about, even today that we get teach that stay on narrow trail -- not wide trail or you’ll be in trouble. That’s true story.

Anymore question? LESLIE McCARTNEY: Wonderful.

BARBARA CELLARIUS: That’s great, thank you. ROY DAVID: All right.

LESLIE McCARTNEY: No more questions from me.

BARBARA CELLARIUS: No more questions.

LESLIE McCARTNEY: Thank you, Roy, it's been very enjoyable. Thanks. BARBARA CELLARIUS: Thank you very much. ROY DAVID: Yeah.