Bradford "Brad" Washburn was interviewed on July 8, 2000 by Dave Krupa at Brian and Diane Okonek's home in Talkeetna, Alaska. On the day of the interview, Bradford and Barbara Washburn were in Talkeetna waiting for clear weather so they could visit key locations in Denali National Park, such as Fake Peak, in an effort to clear up remaining mysteries about Captain Cook's claimed ascent of the mountain. In this interview, Brad, who is truly the "dean" of the mountain, shares in amazing detail his extraordinary journey over more than half a century to explore, document, and share the mountains that he loves and that have been the focus of his life. He talks about some of the expeditions he has made in Alaska, including Denali and Mount Lucania in the Wrangell Mountains, and elsewhere in the world, his technique for aerial mountain photography, and his map making efforts. He also discusses setting the West Buttress Route on Denali, his concerns about preserving wilderness, and his recent effort to research Cook's Sourdough Expedition.
Digital Asset Information
Project: Denali Mountaineering
Date of Interview: Jul 8, 2000
Narrator(s): Bradford Washburn
Interviewer(s): David Krupa
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Sections
1) Personal background and education and background
2) How his interest in mountain climbing developed
3) The publishing of books and his Mont Blanc and Matterhorn climbs of 1926
4) Studying at college and climbing in the Alps
5) His first expedition trip to Alaska and learning what the guides know
6) Coming back to Mt. Fairweather and other reconnaissance surveys
7) Reconnaissance trips
8) Mapping expeditions and naming peaks
9) Receiving a telegram from the King of England and relaying the message to the present Queen
10) Arranging the first large formal photographic flight over Mt. McKinley in 1936
11) Gathering a team and traveling to climb Mt. Lucania
12) Being left by the airplane to climb Mt. Lucania
13) Trying to find a way out without an airplane
14) Some boys from Burwash Landing out retrieving their horses
15) Getting a map of McKinley made in Switzerland
16) The Swiss mapmakers
17) The making of a detailed map of Mt. McKinley
18) The filming of Mt. McKinley
19) The cameras he used and retrieving old cameras
20) Learning to use Colonel Stevens' Fairchild K-6 aerial camera
21) Fixing the broken camera on a trip to Glacier Bay
22) Counting on the pictures to come out
23) The types of cameras and making them function right
24) Taking pictures while flying at altitude
25) Dealing with Alaska weather when taking pictures
26) The story of the Ellis baby peeing on Alaska Governor Ernest Gruening
27) Emergency flights and trying to make gas last
28) Flying with Howard Gillam on unique flights
29) His first ascent of the West Buttress, and the regulations on Mt. McKinley
30) Dealing with environmentalists and protection of wilderness areas
31) Philosophical differences in attitudes toward the wilderness
32) The trip in which they made the first ascent of the West Buttress on Denali
33) Setting the route up the West Buttress
34) The power of Mt. McKinley
35) The Mt. Hayes climb, the last trip before the War
36) Making a living taking pictures of expeditions
37) The difficulties on the mountain caused by regulations
38) Significant climbs yet to be done in Alaska
39) Measuring the altitude of Denali
40) Great climbs to do second and third ascents on
41) Disproving the claims in Cook's book
42) Gathering information against the Cook expedition
43) Brian Okonek finds true location of where the picture was taken
44) The validity of the Sourdough Expedition
45) The descent of the Sourdough Expedition and taking pictures of routes
46) Changes in the glaciers and unclimbed routes
47) New routes he has found and the first ascent of Mt. St. Elias
48) The thrill of climbing already ascended peaks
49) What he loves about Alaska
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Transcript
Section 1: Washburn, Bradford\ Baptist Hospital -- Boston, MA\ Buckingham School\ uncle -- wealthy\ father -- Episcopal minister\ Washburn Wire Company\ Groton School\ Harvard University\ Odell, Noel\ Mallory, George\ Irvine, Andrew\ Mt. Everest\ geology -- teaching|
Section 2: mountain climbing\ hay fever\ Squam Lake, NH\ Mt. Washington\ cousin\ Christmas\ Europe\ semi-sabbatical\ history -- church\ Mt. Blanc -- first ascent\ Pope Pius XI -- mountaineer\ book -- My Climbs on Alpine Peaks\ book -- History of Mont Blanc\ Alps\ Matterhorn\ articles -- "A Boy on the Matterhorn"\ articles -- "A Boy Climbs Mont Blanc"\ magazine -- Youth's Companion\ Putnam, George\ series -- boy's books\ Among the Alps with Bradford\ David Goes to Greenland\ David Goes to Baffinland|
Section 3: book\ manuscript\ Putnam, George\ pictures\ book -- Among the Alps with Bradford\ presidential candidates -- books\ Mont Blanc -- summer\ Matterhorn\ climbing\ training -- formal\ camp\ Les Bossons France\ trail\ valley\ technical\ Mont Blanc -- Italian side|
Section 4: Alaska\ National Park Service\ Harvard University\ degree -- French history and literature\ master's degree -- geology\ Smith College -- French\ mountaineering -- french\ Harvard Mountaineering Club\ Odell, Noel\ Alps|
Section 5: Alaska -- first trip\ Mt. Fairweather\ Lituya Bay\ wilderness camping\ hut -- meals\ Holmes, Burton -- travel lecturer\ Everett, Walter\ Mont Blanc -- guideless\ Alaska -- no guides\ porters\ camp\ guides -- critical\ tent|
Section 6: Mt. Fairweather\ Cape Fairweather\ La Perouse -- 1800's\ Alps\ climb\ route\ Taylor, Andy\ Carpé, Allen\ Moore, Terris\ Mt. Fairweather -- first ascent\ Mt. Crillon\ mapmaking\ reconnaissance map\ National Geographic\ expedition -- Yukon\ reconnaissance survey\ Mt. Logan\ Kluane Lake|
Section 7: dog team\ hand sledged\ Alsek River\ Nunatak Fjord\ Yakutat Bay\ boat -- rubber\ Russell Fjord\ Knight Island\ cannery -- Yakutat\ Bates, Bob\ Mt. Lucania\ Taylor, Andy\ winter camping\ guide -- Wrangell Mountains\ Mt. Logan\ Carpé, Allen\ technique -- knee-lift\ snowshoes\ outdoorsmen\ leg -- broken\ McCarthy, AK|
Section 8: Nunatak Fjord\ ice cliff\ glacier\ rock -- sheet\ snow\ rocks\ boat -- rubber\ breeze -- on-shore\ breeze -- off-shore\ Taylor, Andy\ Alsek River\ reconnaissance map\ peaks\ Hubbard Glacier -- headwaters\ Mt. Kennedy\ Yakutat Bay\ Mt. King George\ Mt. Queen Mary\ King George V\ London, England\ boat -- gas\ Carter, Ad\ Beardsley, Hardy\ telegram\ telephone\ cannery -- Yakutat\ radio operator|
Section 9: King George V\ England\ Royal Geographical Society\ captain\ trips -- remembering\ snowstorm\ tent\ Mt. Kennedy\ climb\ Alaska\ Yakutat Area\ Taylor, Andy|
Section 10: National Geographic\ Mt. Crillon -- first ascent\ Grosvenor, Dr.\ Mt. McKinley -- large format photograpic flight\ Pacific Alaska Airlines\ Lockheed -- Electra\ Putnam, George\ Earhart, Amelia\ Crosson, Joe\ weather\ wind -- west\ Carpé, Allen\ Koven, Theodore\ Lindley, Al\ Pearson, Grant|
Section 11: National Geographic\ Mt. Lucania\ Yukon Territory\ Wood, Walter\ Mt. Steele\ Burwash Landing\ Reeve, Bob\ airplane -- ski equipped\ Valdez -- mud flats\ mines -- high altitude\ Walsh Glacier\ Mt. Logan\ telegram\ Dow, Russell\ Bright, Norman\ Cunningham, Glen|
Section 12: Reeve, Bob\ airplane\ Alaska Range\ Mt. Lucania\ Wood, Walter\ Mt. Steele\ Wolf Creek Glacier\ cache -- food\ bears\ Donjek River\ Burwash Landing\ horses\ river -- flood\ glaciers\ snow -- melting|
Section 13: Donjek Glacier\ river\ canyon\ rapids\ tent\ duffel bags\ camp\ food -- mushrooms\ fire -- wood\ Burwash Landing\ rabbit\ squirrel\ tussocks|
Section 14: food -- dwindling\ mountains -- low\ Burwash Landing\ horses\ Donjek River\ adventure\ book\ Mt. Lucania\ injuries\ epics\ Lieutenant Phillips\ Lieutenant Talley\ Alaska -- died\ Homer, AK\ mapping -- air\ control points|
Section 15: museum\ aerial mapping\ American Alpine Club\ Feuz, Ernst\ Switzerland\ Murren -- guides\ Neue Waherenhaus\ Weber, Marguerit\ Weber, Karl\ map -- Mt. McKinley area\ Swiss Foundation -- alpine research\ Rice, Hamilton\ Swiss Federal Institute of Topography|
Section 16: map\ contouring\ photography\ air force\ Fairbanks -- General\ Heerbrugg, Wild\ Switzerland\ Smythe, Frank\ Wey, Othmar\ Malchow, Siegfried\ cliff drawing -- representation\ glacial -- representation\ Witzler, Paul\ conditions -- 1951\ elevations -- feet\ artwork -- Federal Office of Topography\ Wabern?, Switzerland\ Bertschmann, Dr. Simon\ Chervet, Dr. Daniel\ mapmakers -- Swiss\ mapmakers -- American\ America -- interest\ geological survey|
Section 17: Jungfrau\ Switzerland\ Swiss Alpine Club\ Imhof, Eduard\ Overlay, Bernese\ Washington, D.C.\ Washburn, Barbara\ cookbook\ Mt. McKinley -- sides\ West Kahiltna Glacier\ reconnaissance\ altitudes -- not flawless\ control\ Geological Survey\ Geodetic Survey\ GPS\ aerial photography\ control points -- positioning|
Section 18: Mt. McKinley\ climbing\ National Geographic -- flights\ photography\ Army\ Twining, Gen. Nathan\ Chairman -- Joint Chiefs of Staff\ photography -- U2\ Alaska\ pictures\ National Geographic -- money\ Rice, Dr. Alexander Hamilton\ map\ lecturing\ museum\ wife\ children|
Section 19: equipment\ Stevens, Captain Albert W.\ Harvard Institute of Geographical Exploration\ aerial photography\ camera -- inherited\ camera -- Fairchild K6\ camera -- K22\ Alps\ pictures\ University of Alaska Fairbanks\ archives\ museum -- University of Alaska\ Alaska Mountain Museum -- wing\ airplane\ Talkeetna Hotel\ lens\ viewfinder|
Section 20: pictures -- camera\ airplane -- chained\ archives\ equipment\ cameras\ Stevens, Colonel\ stratosphere -- first person\ Harvard Institute of Geographical Exploration\ lobby -- picture\ camera -- K-6\ camera -- K-22\ Glacier Bay, AK|
Section 21: Glacier Bay, AK\ National Geographic\ pictures -- sell\ trip -- cost\ camera -- checking\ base camp\ seaplane\ focal-plane shutter -- crack\ cam shaft -- pin\ exposure -- length\ tool kit\ tools -- pliers\ tools -- triangular file\ tools -- copper wire\ blanket pin\ sling\ spring|
Section 22: pictures -- perfect\ Stevens, Captain Albert W.\ officer -- air force\ stratosphere\ National Geographic\ Mt. McKinley\ University of Alaska\ camera -- Eastman Museum of Photography\ Rochester, NY\ technology -- change\ pictures -- military\ pictures -- oblique\ pictures -- mapping\ camera -- Fairchild F8\ groundshots\ airshots|
Section 23: Carcross, YT\ developing -- field\ prints\ develop -- toilet\ cameras -- Fairchild\ book -- pictorial volume\ camera -- Kodak\ camera function -- altitude\ mechanical -- crank\ film -- advance\ shutter -- set\ magazine\ role -- film\ aerial camera\ Adams, Ansel\ photography\ scenery -- big\ negatives -- big|
Section 24: office -- enlargement\ camera\ Los Angeles, CA\ Mt. McKinley\ seat belts\ gas cases\ chain -- waist\ airplane -- cabin\ airplane -- door\ flying suit -- cold\ boots -- felt\ oxygen -- occassional\ St. Elias Range|
Section 25: oxygen -- high altitude\ camera -- holding\ rudder -- left\ Alaska -- weather\ Mt. St. Elias\ Mt. Logan\ weather -- waiting\ Talkeetna, AK\ flights\ photography\ pilot\ pilot -- lingo|
Section 26: pilots\ Reeve, Bob\ Meyrng, Gene\ Ellis, Bob\ Ketchikan\ Juneau\ Gruening, Governor Ernest\ territory\ governor -- appointed\ president\ base -- floating\ Ellis, Peg\ seaplane\ engine case\ radial engine\ photograph -- baby\ Alaska|
Section 27: emergencies -- in-flight\ gas tanks -- changing\ Randall, Bob\ Carcross, YT\ Yakutat Bay\ airplane -- dive\ propellor -- running\ Mt. Logan\ fly -- winter\ Yukon Territory\ Kluane Lake\ Gillam, Harold\ Cordova, AK\ Mt. St. Elias\ gas -- amount\ flying time\ Yakataga Beach\ low tide|
Section 28: tide table\ low tide\ flying time\ pictures\ Cordova, AK\ airplane -- land equipped\ Gillam, Harold\ Valdez, AK\ blind flying -- competence\ Reeve, Bob\ Fairbanks\ climbing\ Mt. McKinley\ Mt. Hayes\ Mt. Bertha\ Mt. Crillon\ climb -- photographing|
Section 29: trip -- Army\ climbing\ Mt. McKinley\ Talkeetna, AK\ Kahiltna Glacier\ West Buttress -- first ascent\ Mt. McKinley -- regulations\ National Park Service\ Muldrow Glacier\ Chelatna Lake\ flying-in\ airport -- Talkeetna, AK\ wilderness\ hotel\ environmentalists\ Sierra Club|
Section 30: Tokositna Glacier\ hotel\ Canada\ wilderness -- protect\ environmentalists\ special permits\ mushrooms\ geology\ New York, NY\ San Francisco, CA\ tourists\ war -- injuries\ government\ Congress\ Stevens, Ted\ non-environmentalists\ political\ oil\ tourism\ development -- orderly|
Section 31: Wonder Lake\ highway -- entrance\ Swiss\ French\ Americans\ problems -- philosophical\ problems -- practical\ route -- establishment\ Office of Naval Research\ research -- cosmic ray\ Denali Pass\ Washburn, Barbara\ University of Alaska\ outerspace -- particles|
Section 32: landing\ camping\ Denali Pass\ Gale, Jim\ 10th Air Rescue Squadrom -- sergeant\ Anchorage, AK\ Moore, Terris\ University of Alaska -- president\ Chelatna Lake\ trout -- fresh\ glacier\ Kahiltna Pass\ Kahiltna Dome\ Peak Z\ survey station\ Wonder Lake\ acclimitization\ backpacking\ Windy Corner|
Section 33: snowshoes\ slope\ crack\ steps -- chopping\ fixed lines\ Gale, Jim\ climbing rope\ ridge\ igloo\ Bishop, Barry\ Griffith, Prof. Mel\ Mt. Everest\ sleeping bags\ packs -- light\ fuel -- extra\ food -- extra\ wind|
Section 34: Mt. McKinley\ Muldrow Route\ West Buttress Route\ technical -- easy\ Scott, Doug\ Haston, Dougal\ climbers -- British\ Alpine Journal\ summit\ experience -- Himalayan\ souls -- cold\ Washburn, Barbara\ Gale, Jim\ Victoreen, Hugo\ Hackett, Bill\ Browne Tower\ equipment -- cosmic ray\ food\ storm\ tent\ machete saw\ igloo\ weather -- clear\ Denali Pass|
Section 35: snowcave\ igloo -- ventilation\ hole -- windward\ hole -- leeward\ Mt. Hayes\ Alaska\ Washburn, Barbara\ Mt. Hayes -- difficulty\ ridge -- sharp\ Mt. Hayes -- north ridge\ summit\ climber -- woman\ Mt. Hayes -- south side\ seaplanes\ Ferris, Ben\ Shand, Bill\ Hendricks, Sterling\ Hall, Henry\ Gale, Jim\ Hackett, Bill|
Section 36: mountain -- climbable\ Ferris, Ben\ Shand, Bill\ ridge -- narrow\ ice\ lecturing -- financing\ museum\ retiring\ Washburn, Barbara\ children\ Mt. McKinley\ climbing expeditions\ outdoors\ Mt. Washington\ skiing\ couch potatoes|
Section 37: Mt. McKinley -- East Face\ National Park Service -- regulations\ Traleika Glacier\ crevasses\ supply -- drop\ Stuck, Hudson\ Lower Muldrow Glacier\ danger\ search and rescue\ leg -- broken\ regulations -- access\ Kantishna airport|
Section 38: Roberts, David\ Wickersham Wall\ ascent -- direct\ Mt. McKinley -- East Face\ photographs -- stereoscope\ Mt. Huntington -- east side\ technical climb\ Mt. Dickey\ Ruth Glacier\ Great Gorge\ fog\ down climb\ articles\ American Alpine Journal\ Mt. McKinley -- East Face|
Section 39: altitude\ scientific\ GPS -- equipment\ Federal Government\ NIMA\ Kumar, Muni\ geoid\ global satellites\ Anchorage, AK\ Mt. Everest\ Nepal\ Alaska\ Tingri, Tibet\ China -- Surveyor General\ altitude -- difference|
Section 40: Mt. Everest\ altitude\ survey stations\ Chinese\ international competition\ Mt. McKinley\ Mt. Vancouver\ Mt. Cook\ Mt. Kennedy -- north side\ climb\ Chamonix, France\ Alps\ mountain climbing -- enjoyment\ Mt. Sanford\ ski\ Moore, Terris\ airplane|
Section 41: survey network\ Cook, Dr. -- book\ Sheldon, Don\ airplane -- Supercub\ Fake Peak\ snow\ footsteps\ Barrill, Ed\ Cook, Dr. Frederick A.\ view -- 15,400 ft.\ book -- publisher|
Section 42: pictures -- located\ Great Gorge\ Mt. Barrille\ Great Gorge -- head\ archives\ Byrd Polar Research Center -- Ohio State University\ Fake Peak\ Mt. McKinley\ Washburn, Barbara\ helipad\ Cary, Mary\ Anchorage, AK\ helicopter\ Denali National Park\ Mt. McKinley -- summit\ Cook -- episode\ North Pole\ Frederick A. Cook Society|
Section 43: Mt. McKinley\ North Pole\ Danes\ Eskimos\ Mt. Barrille\ Mt. Dickey\ Ohio State University\ tent\ altitude -- precise\ Great Gorge\ Okonek, Brian\ tourists\ Sheldon, Don -- mountain house\ Great Gorge -- east side\ research money\ GPS\ crevasses\ story -- Barrille
Section 44: Cook -- expedition\ pictures\ Alder Creek\ Tokositna Glacier\ Sourdough Expedition\ McGonagall, Charlie\ Anderson, Pete\ Bright, Norman\ Taylor, Billy\ Stuck, Hudson -- expedition\ Harper, Walter\ Kantishna -- mining\ peak\ Fairbanks, AK\ Karstens Ridge -- high camp\ shovel -- steps|
Section 45: Sourdough Gully\ ice gully\ blue ice\ history\ pictures\ routes -- climbing\ Mt. Dickey\ West Buttress\ Mt. St. Elias\ Mt. Logan\ mountains -- change\ earthquake\ Muldrow Glacier -- change|
Section 46: Muldrow Glacier -- Big Bend\ rocks -- vegetation\ McGonagall Pass\ global warming\ climate\ precipitation\ Echelmeyer, Keith\ Geophysical Institute\ snow depth -- Ruth Glacier\ climber\ routes -- new\ Moose's Tooth\ Broken Tooth\ Mt.McKinley -- east face\ National Park Service\ airplane -- DC-10\ Kahiltna Glacier\ crevasses|
Section 47: Alaska\ variant -- French\ route -- new\ ascent -- first\ highway -- walk\ information -- sharing\ Mt. Logan -- south face\ routes -- dangerous\ mountains -- unclimbed\ di Savoia, Luigi Amedeo\ Mt. St. Elias -- first ascent|
Section 48: sun\ first ascent -- dangerous\ routes -- old\ Route of No Return\ Isis Face\ Talkeetna Ridge\ Mt. Foraker\ accidents\ Stump, Mugs\ Mt. McKinley\ crevasses\ mountains -- dangerous\ Alaska|
Section 49: peaks -- pristine\ Dhauligeri\ Himalaya\ wilderness\ Alaska -- visits\ Boston, MA\ Seattle, WA\ Juneau, AK\ cruise -- West Tours\ Talkeetna Hotel\ advisory board -- National Park Service\ Denali National Park|