MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: So we actually have a set list of questions so that we ask everyone the same questions about the trails.

So which -- which trails did your crew use?

BILLY ADAMS: Number seven.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Number seven.

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Yeah. And were there other crews on that trail as well?

BILLY ADAMS: Ah, initially Jonathan Aiken and I were making the trail. And started out in January with Carl Kippi, just the three of us.

We worked on it until we roughly made it to the lead edge.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Was that -- was that for seal hunting or -- BILLY ADAMS: Uh-huh. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: -- already in -- ?

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah, we were trying to just -- a rough trail to the lead in January.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: How -- how many of these trails were -- were seal trails before whaling?

BILLY ADAMS: Oh, there was also -- that number, it had to be number two and number one, I believe.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Um.

BILLY ADAMS: Those two -- we also went seal hunting in that area. This was in December with Carl Kippi.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: And so during whaling, why was it that your crew then decided to whale here?

BILLY ADAMS: Uh, it was made the decision by an elder to -- and our captain to -- go out here in front of Barrow because they didn’t want to go up north.

From the previous years we’ve been up there the ice was traveling near the edge.

So we -- most of the open water was in front of Barrow.

And it was a lot flatter to the lead edge on trail number eight.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: So there's been more open water down in this area?

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah, -- MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Just off town.

BILLY ADAMS: All the ice was traveling near here.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Yeah. BILLY ADAMS: Going out, here was a lot of water in this area.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: And that’s -- that’s Jake Adams, the captain?

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Is that your father?

BILLY ADAMS: My brother.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Oh, your brother. Yeah, I’m thinking -- BILLY ADAMS:

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: I’ve never met -- BILLY ADAMS: Yeah, there is a lot of people ask, "Is he your dad?"

No, he’s my older brother.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: I’ve never seen him so I don’t know how old he looks.

I don’t think -- maybe I’ve seen him, but I've never met him probably.

BILLY ADAMS: Well, our trail is number seven, yeah.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Number seven.

BILLY ADAMS: Why did I keep saying number eight?

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Oh, no, you said seven.

BILLY ADAMS: Okay.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Yeah.

BILLY ADAMS: When I look again.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: So then what -- is there any specific characteristics of the --

BILLY ADAMS: The trail?

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: -- the ice that you guys are looking at when you’re -- BILLY ADAMS: Well --

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: -- choosing exactly where to put the trail?

BILLY ADAMS: We’re trying to go out to the furthest point that is sticking out.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Um.

BILLY ADAMS: Because of the whales traveling from point to point.

See if they come out to this point and they'll travel, then hit another point out here somewhere, come back in right here.

Maybe if they come -- come to number two. They’ll do that.

So we’re trying to go in front of the point to intercept the whales.

Most of the time the whales come in and go out so if you’re behind this point you probably won’t see much action in here.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Um. So in -- what -- what type of ice was -- I know towards the lead edge was that real flat stretch of ice.

BILLY ADAMS: The flat young ice was formed early in January during that time and stayed there 'til -- that ice formed there and stayed right up until the first week of May, and that young ice floated out.

Deteriorated from the bottom then floated out.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Um.

BILLY ADAMS: To where the first ice edge was in January.

Like right now we’ll see almost the same thing probably going to happen. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Um.

BILLY ADAMS: Cause it's out so close right now only maybe half a mile.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: So you mean --

BILLY ADAMS: The lead edge is half a mile from here right now.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Yeah, yeah.

BILLY ADAMS: It's the same thing as last year. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Um.

BILLY ADAMS: It's probably going to open up wide and then freeze like this again.

Then who knows what's going to happen.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: So these extensions like this usually happen around this time of year?

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Approximately this?

BILLY ADAMS: Uh-huh. Yeah. So we’re seeing that right now. This is staying here right now.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Um.

BILLY ADAMS: It's about the similar from last year. That far.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Yeah.

BILLY ADAMS: And further out to the south. It’s further out this way, like it’s kind of like this situation right now.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Um. And what about the conditions in the -- towards the middle of the trail?

BILLY ADAMS: The middle of the trail was much thicker from -- stayed there since, well, I would say maybe late October.

And then ice came in and pushed it solidly probably to the shore.

And that's where we wanted to make the trail because there was some large pans of ice -- thick pans of ice there.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Was that easy to get through this with the snowmachine? BILLY ADAMS: Uh.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: To navigate out to this edge?

BILLY ADAMS: To over here?

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Oh, I keep pointing to eight, cause -- but, yeah, seven.

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah, it was very flat right in here is big pans of older ice. And then we chopped that trail for like --

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: So in here there are pans of older ice?

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah, right there.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: So they were older because they just formed earlier?

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah, larger pans of ice. But in the middle it was -- had been a lot of ivu around there. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Um.

BILLY ADAMS: Layered up and big boulders.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: And that’s -- is that --

BILLY ADAMS: That’s like a anchor to the -- MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Yeah.

BILLY ADAMS: -- bottom, so we figured it would probably be safe there to spend the nights.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: So did you guys have like a retreat camp or safety camp?

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah. We did.

Right before you got to this big pan of -- right in this --

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Like somewhere in here?

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah. Right in there.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: I'm going to mark that down. BILLY ADAMS: No, no. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Eight? BILLY ADAMS: Right here. Right in here. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Oh, right in there.

BILLY ADAMS: So it was so close to Barrow most of the other -- most of the crews just went to town.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Yeah.

BILLY ADAMS: But there was several camps that stayed there.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Um. So then how much work -- what was the amount of work that you put in the trail that year?

Similar to other years or was it more or less building the trail?

BILLY ADAMS: It was maybe the same amount as last couple years. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Um.

BILLY ADAMS: But we did -- we did work on there quite a bit of time. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Uh-huh.

BILLY ADAMS: It took us at least 10 days to roughly go to the edge.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: And then this ice broke out shortly after you guys got your whale?

BILLY ADAMS: No, it broke it broke out before we got our whale.

Eugene Brower landed a whale there April 27. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Um.

BILLY ADAMS: Then it had gotten windy and a lot of current from the bottom deteriorated most of that young ice.

That young ice it was a pretty long stretch.

Had to be what’s that -- it had to be at least three or four miles long.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Um. You mean you had deterioration --

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah, all --

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: All three or four miles?

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah, all of this came off.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Um.

BILLY ADAMS: Right here. It came -- most of it came off anyway.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Yeah. And so then did you -- you guys got a whale?

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah, we got a whale on May 7. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Um.

BILLY ADAMS: But it was on the thicker ice.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: On the same trail though, right?

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah, on the same trail.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: So that was back -- back in here somewhere then?

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah. Right --

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: After it broke off?

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah, after it broke off it left --

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Yeah. BILLY ADAMS: Right in here somewhere. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Um.

BILLY ADAMS: Right on the trail -- it was right on the trail.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Yeah.

BILLY ADAMS: It had to be like right here, I think.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Um. And then -- but -- but when you guys were out here, before it broke off, were you concerned about -- ?

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah, we had concerns because we knew it was eventually going -- going to melt,

but we were thinking of staying out there only until like the 1st of May. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Uh.

BILLY ADAMS: Cause we were -- we -- we went out there on the 16th of April.

We didn’t have plans to stay out there for long period of time because the size of the whales coming, they're already too large to handle by the 10th of May.

Too many big whales coming by and the smaller whales have already passed .

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: So you guys usually stop around May 10th?

BILLY ADAMS: We try not to stay out there that late because of the -- MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Size.

BILLY ADAMS: Size of the whales.

But in the past .

Have you been helped? Have you been helped? Okay.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: So in general, like now, not talking about your trail specifically, but just the shore ice off of Barrow, would you consider or how would you describe last year’s ice conditions?

BILLY ADAMS: It was more dangerous from -- from like trail number -- had to be number five -- from five all the way to ten because of the rotting ice from the bottom.

And most of the crews moved to trail number three.

Almost all the crews moved over to -- because of the -- because of the ice deteriorating from the bottom and ice breaking off further south.

But it was dangerous to be out on this thin ice because there was large -- large holes in the ice.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Um.

BILLY ADAMS: And even when the whale was landed here on May -- I think it was May 4.

Ben Itta landed a whale. Several snowmachines almost went in -- no, almost got lost because the large holes in the ice.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: That was down here off like this?

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah, it was on our trail -- I think some trail is number eight. It was -- it -- Oleumaun -- number -- yeah, number eight.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Um.

BILLY ADAMS: Oleumaun's trail. Nine -- someone had made a trail out here.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Yeah. Somewhere in this area is where it was deteriorating?

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah. Yeah. Right in there. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Um.

BILLY ADAMS: But that’s how I heard a lot of stories from --

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Yeah.

BILLY ADAMS: -- other whalers.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: What about encounters of the -- did -- did the amount of grounded anchoring ridges was last year, a -- ?

BILLY ADAMS: Last year, a lot of it was like -- like that, not brash. I want to say --

Muġałłiq. A lot of ice just rumbled together and -- but it was kind of slushy ice that froze.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Um.

BILLY ADAMS: And we was -- and a lot of different places -- it was a lot of ridging in some places.

But we didn’t want to stay on that ice very long, as we -- we didn’t plan to stay out there til the 10th of something.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: So that -- that ice that you just mentioned is that -- so that’s a ridge that builds up from slushy ice or from pushing together.

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah. There was several -- couple at least three or four places that we crossed that were --

it was just slushy ice that’s not very stable when it melts and breaks off.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Um.

BILLY ADAMS: There's no -- no safe place to jump onto.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Um. It’s not grounded?

BILLY ADAMS: No. Once -- once it breaks off it'll disperse like -- dispersing -- it'll disperse in all directions.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Um. So was that on this side of your safe camp? On the --

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah, it was on the -- towards the lead edge.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Yeah. BILLY ADAMS: Around there. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Um.

BILLY ADAMS: But it wasn’t a safe platform.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Um.

BILLY ADAMS: So what we’re trying to look for is somewhere safe where you could have your whole camp on if it breaks off.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Uh-huh.

BILLY ADAMS: We try to find that sort of place at least two or three feet thick.

Enough to hold a whale when you pull up a small whale.

But once you get into that slushy ice, it’s not a safe place to be in or to butcher a whale.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: And so why is it that -- that the ice up in here didn’t get diverted from the currents like the ice to the south did?

BILLY ADAMS: It had froze there earlier. It stayed out there and got thicker and it was -- it was much thicker ice and most of it wasn’t that slushy type of ice.

That slushy ice from the bottom is kind of free there even though it’s -- it’s -- it’s free down there then when that current picks up from the bottom eats away, eats away, eats away and eats away, but in a few days the sun will go right through. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Uh-huh.

BILLY ADAMS: And the ice up north it was solid thick and when that current -- the current just passed by on the bottom.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Uh-huh.

BILLY ADAMS: It didn’t eat away like it did over here. You know what I’m trying to explain?

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Yeah, I know what you mean. Could -- so how do you write that -- I can’t pronounce it what you just said.

BILLY ADAMS: Muġałłiq.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Can you spell it?

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: I think I’ve seen it written before but -- Muġałłiq.

BILLY ADAMS: Muġałłiq.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: And that did -- does that mean -- When you use that word, does that mean near the ice edge or could it be anywhere?

BILLY ADAMS: It’s anywhere.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Anywhere, yeah.

BILLY ADAMS: It's sometimes where there -- there's a shear zone and most the -- from the ice that's traveling -- the pack ice.

It start rumble and it just makes shavings of -- It's like that snow cone ice, but it's out -- it goes way down, maybe 30 feet.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Um. BILLY ADAMS: Then it just stays there then, but it's free.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: So it’s -- it's usually from shearing?

BILLY ADAMS: Then when you break it, it just -- when it floats up, it just goes every -- in all the directions.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Um. So it's almost -- it's usually just from shearing --

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah, just from doing this number. Not like this.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Yeah. That makes sense.

BILLY ADAMS: And that Muġałłiq, it can go out a little ways when that happens -- when it opens up after it does that it'll go out a little ways maybe 30 feet.

Then it freezes right there. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Um.

BILLY ADAMS: Little round chunks everywhere and --

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: They stood -- they’re shavings just before they freeze?

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah. It drift a little, then freeze there for like I don’t know a month or two. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Um.

BILLY ADAMS: Then later on in April and May that stuff melts first. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Um.

BILLY ADAMS: To the -- it's not safe.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Yeah.

BILLY ADAMS: So we try to avoid those areas.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Um. Well that’s -- that's at least in my mind one of the really useful things about these types of interviews because that instrument that we pull is hard to understand what exactly we’re measuring.

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Like it doesn’t -- it doesn’t tell you what type of ice is. It just tells you -- BILLY ADAMS: Yeah. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: -- how thick it is. BILLY ADAMS: Okay.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: So, it’s useful to know what type of ice you’re -- we'll pulling that over top of.

And so then the currents that -- that eroded the ice this year was there a particular direction in which they --

BILLY ADAMS: Um --

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: -- were traveling or -- ?

BILLY ADAMS: A lot of the warm current came this way first and --

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: So from the west?

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah, really fast and then it -- then, you know, when it -- when it came out back this way, the wind shifted.

Everything came off.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Huh. So the warm currents came in from the -- BILLY ADAMS: Yeah.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: -- the west -- south and then -- BILLY ADAMS: Uh-huh.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: And then an offshore wind blew it out after it weakened it?

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah. After the current kind of stopped when the wind shifted everything came out -- most of everything.

So we're out there scratching our heads wondering where we're going to whale.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: But then you got one?

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah. We eventually got lucky.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: So the last question -- Well, maybe the last question.

BILLY ADAMS: The whales were coming up behind us.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Behind you?

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah, they were coming up behind our camp.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Oh, underneath the ice?

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah, from those pockets of --

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Oh, really. You could see them where the ice had --

BILLY ADAMS: We could hear the whales and we eventually saw one whale and -- MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Huh. BILLY ADAMS: We started --

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: So it was breaking the ice a little bit or it was just completely open?

BILLY ADAMS: It was open and we didn’t know. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Huh.

BILLY ADAMS: There's a whale behind us. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Huh.

BILLY ADAMS: We tried to go get it. We were too late.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Could you get it? BILLY ADAMS: Yeah.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: How’d -- how’d you find it if it --

BILLY ADAMS: We had a float. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Oh.

BILLY ADAMS: Lloyd tried to kill it instantly.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Yeah. Huh. So people have done that before? BILLY ADAMS: Yeah. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: In whaling? BILLY ADAMS: Many times.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Amazing. I never heard of that. I guess that --

BILLY ADAMS: A lot of stories from my uncles and older people.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Yeah. So, I’ll let you get going, but -- BILLY ADAMS: That’s okay.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: I want to ask you, is this helpful? These trail maps.

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah, yeah, a lot of whaling captains and a lot of other people are interested in that already.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Do you think there's any -- anything we could do differently to make it more useful?

BILLY ADAMS: Ah -- let’s see. I don’t know. It's already very useful the way it is right now. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Um.

BILLY ADAMS: But maybe if there was actual GPS numbers right -- right -- MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Oh --

BILLY ADAMS: -- from the very start.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Yeah, I think there was on some of them. BILLY ADAMS: Yeah.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: I think I took them off on this one just so we could see the ice conditions better, but, yeah, so GPS coordinates at the starts.

BILLY ADAMS: At the start, yeah.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Um. Yeah, I’ll make sure that that’s on all the maps that come out this year. And I’ll be up here actually more this year, I think.

BILLY ADAMS: Alright.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Into March, too.

BILLY ADAMS: You could spend the night at our camp.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Well, if you guys need any help building trail, I’d be happy to help.

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah, there's -- we -- everybody always needs help.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Yeah.

BILLY ADAMS: When you go visit some people ask you to stay on their trail and finish and then stay there.

But right now the way it looks, if it's like this, if it's, you know, if it doesn’t freeze any more. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Huh.

BILLY ADAMS: The trail is -- we might have to start a trail over in here by NARL .

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Off of NARL, huh.

BILLY ADAMS: If not, we'll go check down this area.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Is it just because the -- if the ice is -- isn’t far enough out the whales will be just too far out.

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah, but last year we were real close to town and they came in. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Huh.

BILLY ADAMS: So we just have to wait until it opens up in March, and give us an idea of where we're going to start building our trail. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Huh.

BILLY ADAMS: But we're almost getting some ideas. Straight out from Browerville, right now.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: But if something it just looks like out there.

BILLY ADAMS: What’s that?

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: It seems to me from looking at the ice now and from the radar that we have. BILLY ADAMS: Yeah.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: That those ridges out here have been here a while.

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah, there's some anchors out there already. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Yeah.

BILLY ADAMS: So we went out -- maybe in front of the hangar we might be looking, but it's too early to say right now.

Maybe in February we'll go seal hunting and scout around. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Yeah.

BILLY ADAMS: But it's good to start early. MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Yeah.

BILLY ADAMS: We try to go out early. Try to intercept the smaller ones.

But every year is different. We never know how it's going to be til -- til it's the week before the whales come.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: I hope to be up here. BILLY ADAMS: Yeah, we’ll --

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: See some of that going on.

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: Okay. I learned a lot more than sitting in my office.

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah, it’s a lot of learning out there when -- right now, you know, it's really hard to tell what it's going to do next.

We might have a big massive east wind and blow everything out. Or we might get a big blast of west wind and jumble everything up.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: The wind's supposed to come tonight, huh?

BILLY ADAMS: Yeah.

MATTHEW DRUCKENMILLER: That’s what somebody said.

Well, thanks Billy. BILLY ADAMS: Oh, no problem.