Project Jukebox

Digital Branch of the University of Alaska Fairbanks Oral History Program
Danny Roehl, Interview 1

Danny Roehl was interviewed on August 7, 1997 by Judith Morris at his home in Kokhanok, Alaska. In this first part of a two part interview, Danny talks about his family background and work history, and the family surviving from trapping, commercial fishing, and subsistence hunting and fishing. He also talks about running a hunting lodge, the importance of respecting animals, and changes in transportation and access to hunting areas. He discusses the impact of Katmai National Park to local people and their way of live, and changes he has noticed in the climate.

Digital Asset Information

Archive #: Oral History 1998-21-04

Project: Katmai National Park
Date of Interview: Aug 7, 1997
Narrator(s): Danny Roehl
Interviewer(s): Judith Morris
Location of Interview:
Funding Partners:
National Park Service
Alternate Transcripts
There is no alternate transcript for this interview.
Slideshow
There is no slideshow for this person.

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Sections

His family background and growing up living off the land

His father supporting the family by commercial fishing and trapping

Life on the trapline in the wintertime

His early years living at Goose Bay and then working for the railroad and meeting his wife

Spending time in the village, at summer fish camp, and commercial fishing when he and his family lived in Anchorage

Returning and building a lodge at Nielsen Bay as a way to earn a living

His wife Nellie running her own trapline when they lived at Neilsen Bay

The status of his lodge and his current hunting activity

What he learned from his father about treating animals with respect, and how his mother utilized local plants

The dangerous behavior of some animals and how people can protect themselves

Changes in the types of mechanized transportation used and how supplies and materials are delivered to Kokhanok

Returning to live in the village after over twenty years in Anchorage and how the Native Claims Settlement Act effected land use in the area

The impacts of National Parks on Native people

Proper trapping techniques and the effects of changing technology on the local lifestyle

Building and property ownership in the village

Using squirrels, muskrat, beaver, and bird eggs

Ice fishing, and weather changes he has noticed over time

Traveling across the portage, hauling water by hand before they had running water, and using radios to stay in touch

Interesting people he remembers coming through the area, and future challenges for life in rural Alaska

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Transcript

MS. JUDITH MORRIS: This is Judith Morris with Danny Roehl in Danny's house in Kokhanok, Alaska. Danny's house is on the shores of Lake Iliamna. It's August 7th, 1997. Danny, let's start out talking about when you were born, where you were born, and what your family was like where you grew up, what it was like when you were a young person. MR. DANNY ROEHL: I was born in Goose Bay, over across the Chekok a little ways. And when I was growing up, we did fishing and hunting and trapping. Diet mostly. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: When -- were your parents -- who were your parents? MR. DANNY ROEHL: My parents are Charles Roehl and Paris Skobia. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Paris Skobia was -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Rickteroff. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Was she an Athabascan or -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yes, she was an Athabascan. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: From Old Iliamna, or -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: From (indiscernible.) MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Oh, from Lime Hill. And your dad was from -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: My dad was from -- he was a Aleut and German. And he was -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: And how (indiscernible) on the Kvichak River? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Right. Uh-hum. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: And -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: And along the Branch River. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. But you were raised up here. How did your dad get up here, do you know? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Well, my grampa went up to Old Iliamna -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: What was the name of your dad's store or your grandfather's store? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Roehl's Trading Post, I believe. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Oh, uh-hum. And so how many were in your family? In your family. MR. DANNY ROEHL: In -- you mean my dad? MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Yeah. Uh-hum. MR. DANNY ROEHL: My sisters and brothers? MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. MR. DANNY ROEHL: There were seven all total. But one of our sisters -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: So what was your house like up there? MR. DANNY ROEHL: This was a log house. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Did your dad build the house? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yes, he did. Uh-hum. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Was it chinked with anything to keep it warm, or? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. I guess later years they bought that cement work. I don't know where he got -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: So you were -- what order, what number were you in the order of the kids? Oldest? Youngest? Middle? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No, I was second to the youngest. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: So you were in the baby part? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Right. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: When you were a young boy, then, like when you were first growing up, what was your dad -- how was your dad providing for the family? MR. DANNY ROEHL: He commercial fished in the summer. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Where did he commercial fish? MR. DANNY ROEHL: He fished on the Bristol Bay for Diamond J. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Diamond J? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Did you guys go with him, you kids, or did you stay up -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Well, the older ones went fishing with him when they got old enough to go fishing. (Indiscernible.) MS. JUDITH MORRIS: And so he would go by himself or he would go with the older boys down to Bristol Bay? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. Well, he always had a partner. During the sailboat days, you never fished by yourself. He would go down there during the fishing season and stuff that you always had -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Blue stone means to treat them with -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah, bluing. They had a big tank up there with bluing and stuff before and you dumped that in there. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: What were the nets made out of in that time, do you know?

MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Were they linen or were they -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Oh, I think they were linen. Yeah, there wasn't nylon in them (inaudible.) MS. JUDITH MORRIS: I heard they were very heavy. MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Compared to the ones today. MR. DANNY ROEHL: Oh, yeah, they were real heavy compared to the ones today. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: So what time of year would your dad leave? MR. DANNY ROEHL: They would leave about the middle of June. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: To go down to the bay? MR. DANNY ROEHL: To go down to the bay, yeah. They had to be down there a week before. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Yeah, I think it -- I think it's -- I think it's different. MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. Back then, too, like they talk about pounds. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: So they were calculating them different. Did they buy by the fish or by the pound? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No, by the fish. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: By the fish? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. When I started fishing I was getting 23 cents a fish. (Indiscernible) Bristol Bay for a while we was getting 25 cents a fish. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: So would your dad bring his boat back up here or did he store it down at the -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: No, dad never had a boat. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Oh. MR. DANNY ROEHL: The boat we had for the lake, we never took the boats down, or whatever. In their sail boats, all they do is go up and what they call grub up. They would get a box and -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Did your dad ever take special food from down here that he liked, like dry fish or dry meat or anything or did he just -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: No, by the time they got down there, there was no dry fish or dry meat left. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. MR. DANNY ROEHL: There was no meat really to dry back then because -- about 1912 or whatever, it drove all the game out of here. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: The Nova Erupta eruption you're re -- at Katmai you're referring to? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yes. Uh-hum. But there was no big game or no moose, no caribou or nothing like that. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: When you were a young boy, that's what you remember, no big game? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. Right. The moose finally started coming back here. (Inaudible.) They could hunt moose for a week and never get any. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Wow. MR. DANNY ROEHL: They'd see the tracks. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: What about seals? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No. There was seals around, but we never really ate the seal. I mean, mom -- they left, they went out to Chemowa for a while, him and my aunt, when they were small. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: To Oregon? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. And they got away from that -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. MR. DANNY ROEHL: She didn't want the big kids speaking the language. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: So how long was your dad out at school, do you know? MR. DANNY ROEHL: I think dad was out for -- it was either three or four years. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: So when your dad would go fishing and then he would come back and he would trap, he would run -- would he use your house as home base or did he have trapping cabins or -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: No. No. He always -- always made sure he got back to the house. His trap line -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: And where would he sell his furs? MR. DANNY ROEHL: They would sell them down to -- fur buyers would come in, in the spring of the year. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: To your house or to Iliamna? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No, they usually stopped in Iliamna down there. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: And your dad would go over to there? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. (Inaudible.)

MS. JUDITH MORRIS: To there? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Well, before the season ended, we always used to go beaver trapping. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. MR. DANNY ROEHL: And we used to take off -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: The whole family would go? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Out around Horseshoe Bend, you know, go down around there. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: How would you get there? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Dog team. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Dog team? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: All of you? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. And we would come back the same way. We would pass through the overland. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Where -- did you guys stay in those tents? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Oh, yeah. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: The white canvas tents -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: -- that I see -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: The wall tents. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: -- yeah, pictures of? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah, that's all we ever had to stay in was those wall tents. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Did you have a stove, then, when you were travelling like that? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah, it was -- we had a little stove in there. It wasn't much of a stove, but... MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Did your parents just take you out of school or were you going to school? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No, we never went to school. (Inaudible.) All we ever did was -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: So -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: My older brothers and sisters, they went to school over in Dillingham. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. So when you were -- when you were living over near Chekok -- or is that right? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: When you were growing up, if your dad was going out trapping for the day, would he take you sometimes with him trapping or did you stay home with your mom, or -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: No, we stayed home and fished and stuff like that. And later on, he took us out and showed us how to trap. He showed Hiney how to trap. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: How many dogs were on your team when you first started out? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Oh, we had -- I think it was around seven. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Did you make your own sled or did you buy them somewhere? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No, dad made the sled. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. MR. DANNY ROEHL: And -- seems like people talk about smoked fish and stuff, they figure there would be enough people to put up a lot of fish -- over late August and September, you start feeding them dry fish then, until -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: What would you cook for them when you would cook for them? MR. DANNY ROEHL: We would cook mostly the heads and stuff. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Oh, okay. When you were -- when you were splitting fish -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: -- you would take part of it and cook for them? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah, (inaudible) stuff and cook for them. Mostly heads because you always kept the backbone in there when they were smoking it, so it would never sour. It was complete -- smoking it probably the middle of August or something. And the next June you could go ahead and still eat that fish and it wouldn't be spoiling. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Where did you store it during the winter? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Just stored it in the smoke house. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Did you have trouble with bears or anything coming in? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No. No. There were no bears around back in those days. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: No -- seriously, no bears no, brown bears? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Did you have black bears up there? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah, there were black bears. There was a few brown bear around, but they never bothered us. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Why do you think the difference is? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Well, too many people. I think the population has grown and stuff and the bear gets -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Well, you said during the winter that you didn't go to school and that when you were younger you just fished and stuff. Were you hook and line or were you jigging or -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. We would fishing hook and line, through the ice. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Through the ice? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. But back then, too, in the -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: So who was buying those? MR. DANNY ROEHL: It was the government. Yeah. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: You would just string them on and then turn them -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: String them up and then turn them in? MR. DANNY ROEHL: We would dry them, dry them on a piece of paper, or whatever, you know.

MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Did a lot of people do that? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Oh, yeah. Yeah. A lot of people. They figured that they were getting -- out over every day, you could pull it out by yourself. But if you missed one -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: When did they quit that program? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Oh, I think there was in the -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Do you remember any other bounties besides the rainbow and the brook trout? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Oh, yeah, there used to be bounties for seal, there was bounties for coyote, there was bounties for -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Making up for lost time or something like that. MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. But like they are saying, figure they are going to fish -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: There's probably not so many people trapping right now? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No. They are not -- weren't that much (indiscernible.) MS. JUDITH MORRIS: So when you and your brother started trapping, how long did you run your trap line together? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Oh, I think we ran it for -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: When did you -- where did you move then? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Well, we moved to Iliamna from Goose Bay. There was trap and -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Now, is that Old Iliamna or New Iliamna? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No, New Iliamna. That was the roadhouse. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Okay. MR. DANNY ROEHL: What they called the roadhouse. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: When you were living in Goose Bay, were you pretty isolated or were there other houses around you? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No. There was a total -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Who else was living there? What other families? MR. DANNY ROEHL: There was my Aunt Marie -- and Gorey's house. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Who was Gorey? MR. DANNY ROEHL: He was -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Fred Roehl? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. And -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Did they have kids, Aunt Sophie and Aunt Marie? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Aunt Marie did. Aunt Sophie never had kids. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. So did people come through? Did you feel isolated or -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: No. No. No. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: -- did you have lots of visitors and -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: We were travelling and lots of people used to travel all the time -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. MR. DANNY ROEHL: -- from Pedro Bay. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: And they would just come and stay with you or just -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. They would -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: -- come have a meal? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Passing -- they would be passing through and stay overnight sometimes. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. MR. DANNY ROEHL: It was mostly relatives. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Your mother was from Pedro Bay? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No. Mother was -- she moved from Iliamna -- Old Iliamna -- my uncle and them moved down there first. They used to live in Goose Bay, on my mother's side. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Did your mom put up -- did your mom and your aunt, did they put up lots of things like berries and -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Oh, yeah. Yeah. We always put up picked berries. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Did she ever bury anything in the ground? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Can or cook or whatever. Not when we were growing up, no. They did years ago, I mean, you know, her mother and them did that. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: But your mother didn't? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Mother didn't, no. She got away from that. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: So let's move you back to Homer. And you go with the railroad. Where were you working on the railroad? MR. DANNY ROEHL: I worked about 40 miles out of Seward. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Well, when did you meet Nellie and how did you get married? Where did you get married, I should say? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Well, we -- I knew Nellie for, oh -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Oh. Okay. MR. DANNY ROEHL: But she was still over here working for -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Well, you said that you started school when you were 14. Was that over in Iliamna? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah, in Iliamna. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Okay. Was that a one-room school at that point? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. Uh-hum.

MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Then you moved to Homer. So then you worked on the railroad and you and Nellie started your family over in Anchorage? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah, well, we started in Homer and we got married in 1949 is when we got married. And we went down the bay and fished that summer. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Bristol Bay? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah, Bristol Bay, 49 hour set netting. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: For what reason? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Because I wasn't -- I wasn't in the watershed of the drainage. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Oh, that was the -- that was the new rule or? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No, that was the old one. That rule has always been before this new rule come in. Fish, you know -- sailboat. But he never give me the boat neither, so. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Did they give very many local people boats or were they mainly outsiders they gave boats? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No, there was quite a few local people fishing when the sailboats were going. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. MR. DANNY ROEHL: After the sailboat days, I, well that's when they started getting independent, then they didn't -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Qualify? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Qualify for them. And a lot of them couldn't qualify because they couldn't -- like they should have been fishing. And a lot of them lost out on that. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Oh, I'm fine. Unless you're not fine. I'm fine. MR. DANNY ROEHL: It's going to start shining in your eyes pretty quick. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: So you never had a Bristol Bay permit, fishing permit? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah, I got one later on. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Oh, okay. So let's put you back in Anchorage. When you were in Anchorage, did you guys come back very often? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. She started coming back here in 1960. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Back to Kokhanok or -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Back to Iliamna. MR. DANNY ROEHL: No, back to Kokhanok and up the bay up there where she usually was where our lodge was at. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: What bay is that? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Nielsen Bay. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Nielsen Bay, that's where she spent time growing up? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. And -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: So she would come back in the summer, bring the kids and put fish up and stuff? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah -- no. Well, she put some fish up, but it was after when manage to go down to the bay station, she set netted. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Oh, okay. MR. DANNY ROEHL: Then after she got through fishing, then she would come up here. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: In Nielsen Bay? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. MR. DANNY ROEHL: One year she left -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: So you had to rebuild the smoke house? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. Had to put sheet iron around. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: So she started coming back in 19 -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: '60. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: -- 60. But you would go right straight back into town and start to work? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. I always had to go back and go to work. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: When you were in Anchorage, did you do much hunting or, you know, fishing otherwise? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Well, every chance I got, I went out and got a moose. But fishing, we tried fishing but we never caught no fish. So it was just a waste of money. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: What about waterfowl or, you know, ducks and geese? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Well, when I first moved to Anchorage, yes, before I got through (indiscernible) I did some waterfowl hunting. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. MR. DANNY ROEHL: But...

MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Did your family that was still out here, did they ever send you stuff into town? Would they ever send you a taste of meat, or? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Well, the whole family was on the other side. They were all -- there wasn't none of them left over here. All my -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: So your whole family had moved over. MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: And stayed at that point. MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: So what made you and Nellie decide to come back to this side? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Well, Nellie always wanted to come back. And the reason why it took us so long -- came back over here. You know, we needed to have a boat and -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: So did all your kids move back with you? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No, huh-uh. We only had Sharon and Kyle. Jeff, he moved over for a while. But then no way to make a living over here. That's why we started the lodge. Heck, I thought it wasn't worth it, just forget about the lodge and just go ahead and tried to get the boys to run it, but they didn't want to run it. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: How long did you guys commercial fish? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Oh, I -- Nellie started in '40 -- few years I missed and there was a few years she missed. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. MR. DANNY ROEHL: And the years that the permit was there, but they never wanted to give me the permit. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: John Doyle? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. And he fished for a couple years. Didn't make any money. And a lot of people think you make money, but you don't even make wages a lot of times. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: So you started a lodge when you came back? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: You built a lodge -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: -- up in Nielsen Bay? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. I built it. What I did, I had a native allotment from Anchorage and I had a 20 acres. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. MR. DANNY ROEHL: In there to start the lodge. That's how we got started. We were going to live up there. That was our home. The lodge was. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. Uh-hum. MR. DANNY ROEHL: That's why we built the lodge up there, so as we could make a living off of it. Gave each one of the kids a lot in Anchorage in there too. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. When you guys came back, did you start doing anything like trapping and hunting again? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. Yeah, we started trapping again. Or she did the trapping. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. Did she run the line by herself? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. Uh-hum. Oh, she would get me -- if she would catch a wolverine, she would get me to go out and shoot it for her. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. MR. DANNY ROEHL: Because she would never shoot a gun and stuff. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: How would you -- if she didn't shoot them, what would she do, hit them over the head or? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Well, they usually choke them. Put a rope around their neck, with kind of a Y, and then pull on that rope and choke the lynx that way. We got a lynx one time and it was jumping around all over and she couldn't get that rope around his neck, (indiscernible) so she sat down there and let her get the rope around his neck.

MS. JUDITH MORRIS: And what else did she trap, then? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Oh, fox, mink. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Land otter? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No. She never trapped any land otter. It was mostly for -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: And those were basically to sell? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: And so she -- what kind of traps did she use? MR. DANNY ROEHL: She used a number 3 trap. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. MR. DANNY ROEHL: (Indiscernible.) MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Get them -- and would she buy them from town or -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah, she would buy them from town. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: What would she use for bait? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Well, mostly she got rabbit or whatever, you know, for lynx. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: How did she trap her beaver? With a -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: She didn't trap much beaver. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Oh, okay. MR. DANNY ROEHL: She trapped a few beaver, she used snares and stuff, but she never really went out there. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Did she work her trap line with -- with Snow-Go, with a skidoo? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah, she used a snow machine, sometimes she walked, depending on what she (inaudible.) MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Was her trap line pretty near the village here? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No, this was up the bay. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Oh, this was when you were living up at Nielsen Bay? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Up at Nielsen Bay up there. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: And when you guys came back and she wanted to start trapping, did she have to ask anybody if she could trap up there? Was somebody -- you know, did she have to share? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No. She went out and made her own trap line. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. So you guys are spending year around up at Nielsen Bay? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: So how many years did you do that? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Oh, first, when we first came back, came back in '76. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Jeff. Your son? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Our son. Yeah. And there were trap -- it wasn't a very long trap line, it was mostly just around the bay in there. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Monetarily? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. Mostly after lynx. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-huh. MR. DANNY ROEHL: And here we moved down here in '77 and build this place. Back to town until he finished school, and then we moved back over. Then back up there in '84. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. MR. DANNY ROEHL: You know, stay up there year around. I wouldn't say we stayed up there year around either, because I had to go to work in the summertime. Worked for the school district here, doing remodel and maintenance. Came back and I had to work a little bit again until I finally retired here about -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: So when you were living up at -- in Nielsen Bay, how would you get all your supplies in for the year? I mean, would you, for the winter, would you barge in a bunch of food and -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Well, we would order -- she would order enough to last until freeze-up was over. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Did you get visitors up there in the winter? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Oh, yeah. They used to always come up there. We had a lot of people coming up there to visit us. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Was it -- was it basically people here from Kokhanok coming up to visit or? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah, from Kokhanok here. Sometimes from across the lake. You had the fish and wildlife up there fishing. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Did you have a strip there? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah.

MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Do you fly? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Who, me? MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Yeah. MR. DANNY ROEHL: I do, but I don't have a license. It's been a long time since I -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. Uh-hum. MR. DANNY ROEHL: But Doyle, he's got an airplane out there, too. He flies. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. Oh, okay. MR. DANNY ROEHL: When he gets the motor back in it. And I don't know if I'll try to -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Hmm. MR. DANNY ROEHL: It's just like a T-craft, you know, so but if you want to it takes some space and stuff to land. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: So you're -- now, you still have your lodge up there, but you're in the process of leasing it to someone? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No. I'm leasing it this year. Last year I -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. MR. DANNY ROEHL: (Inaudible) up there, and now this year they have got clients up there. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. MR. DANNY ROEHL: So they will probably lease it next year. The following year they are supposed to buy it. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. So you still have an interest in it? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: And do you and Nellie still go up there? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Well, Nellie's never been up there. I've been up there a couple times this summer. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Are you still hunting or do you depend on your sons now? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Your son? MR. DANNY ROEHL: I go hunting whenever there's game around. Yeah. You know. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Do you mainly go in the fall when you can go in a skiff or do you go in the winter or -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: No. Mostly -- well, in the fall time if we get a chance we will go, but mostly after freeze-up or whatever. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Take your snow machine out? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Snow machines or four-wheelers or whatever. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: So where do you -- where do you mainly go hunting around here? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Well, a couple years ago, well, it was about three years in a row the caribou -- we went up to Kokhanok Lake. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: How many miles is Kokhanok Lake? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Oh, all total, it's probably about -- well, the way (indiscernible.) MS. JUDITH MORRIS: How long does that take in a snow machine if you have got good conditions? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Oh, if you have got good conditions, probably about 45 minutes. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. And that depends on the -- on the lake being frozen? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: So you can cut across? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. Well, we've got to go up the bay up there to the lodge and then go on a trail. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: But that's been a pretty good place to look for moose? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah, that's a good place to look for a moose. Then once in awhile you go down what we call -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: A caribou or moose? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Caribou. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Caribou? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah, there's a few of them around there. (Indiscernible.) Back where it's all fish camp. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: And you said when you were a young man, there were no caribou, or I mean there were no big game around. MR. DANNY ROEHL: No. There were no caribou, no moose. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: And then at first the moose came in? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah, the moose came back, then the caribou started coming in. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: And now you have moose and caribou? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah.

MS. JUDITH MORRIS: What about -- it just totally went out of my mind. Did you -- did your dad, when you were growing up hunting and trapping with your dad, did he ever share stories on how you should take care of animals or what you had to do to be sure there were always animals around or? Did he share much, I guess, what I might call knowledge? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Well, we were -- we were taught not to shoot anything that we couldn't use. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. MR. DANNY ROEHL: You know, like in the fall time or whenever they got big enough, then we start hunting them. You had to watch out what you were doing, what you were killing stuff. And that. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Did they do anything special when you killed your first animal? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Me? No. No. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: They didn't have any like rules or regulations -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: No. Not like a lot of them still had the superstition and stuff like that, some of the natives do, but... MS. JUDITH MORRIS: So did they have any -- you know, it's -- I know that there are stories that different people tell about how you -- how you treat a wolf because it's a strong animal or something like that. And your dad had a little bit different background being part German and part native. MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. Well, you respected the animals and stuff. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. MR. DANNY ROEHL: You know, but there was no stories about wolf up here -- well, there you shoot him because, you know, that was money, you know, for you. Because there was a bounty on the leg. And then there was -- there wasn't that many wolves around when we were growing up. You know, there came -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: From the eruption? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. Uh-hum. Well, there was no game for them to kill or whatever, so. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: That's true. MR. DANNY ROEHL: They didn't -- when the moose got heavier and stuff, then the wolves and stuff started coming back in again. But before that they were hardly anything. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: What about native plants? Was your mom particularly good -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Oh, yeah. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: -- with -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: She knew all the plants and everything. We used to go out and -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Did she use a lot of native plants, or plants -- I shouldn't say native plants -- for taking care of you guys if you got sick, for medicinal purposes? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Not that much. Well, when we was down beaver trapping or something, she used to do that. But -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. Uh-hum. MR. DANNY ROEHL: What they really used a lot of times was like when you got a bad cut or something, put flour on it. They would take a bandage and then rub -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Baking flour you're talking about? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. Uh-hum. And they would just take the flour and put flour on it and then just keep wrapping that -- in other words, drying would make it get hard, you know, and that would stop the bleeding.

MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Did he have feeling in it? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No stitches, no nothing. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Later on, could he feel it well and stuff? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Well, it gets cold on him right away because there's no circulation in there. He could feel it -- he still could feel it, but he gets cold on it. He's 74. That's all she ever used to use, just like her grampa. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Nellie's grampa. MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. He lived up in Reindeer Bay up there. In the spring of the year he went -- first thing that bear done was grabbed his shotgun and broke it for him. That was it. And the bear left him alone. And after the bear left, tore his guts are open, you know. (Inaudible.) MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Wow, I hadn't heard that story before. MR. DANNY ROEHL: No stitches, no nothing. Just wrapped him up so it would hold (indiscernible.) MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Have you ever heard that you should only approach a bear from the right side? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No. I was always told that if a bear would come after you, just play dead. And they won't bother you like -- young ones, grandma they were out berry picking and they had a little dog. And all mother or grandma did was grab my mother and threw her on the ground and laid on her. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Have you ever heard of wolves bothering people? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Oh, yeah. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. Have you ever heard of a wolf eating a person? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No, I never heard of a wolf eating people, but I heard of a wolf following them. And there was one guy from Nondalton up there, in fact, I don't know if you know Pauline Hobson, her dad was walking from someplace. The next thing he knew that there was a bunch of wolves around him. And it was blowing. East wind. So -- what to do, so he finally took his hat off. But he don't know how come. But the thing that mother said that if you ever see otters, more than one, make sure you have a stick or something. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Oh, otters will? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Uh-hum. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Huh. MR. DANNY ROEHL: Because they attacked her brother. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: And did he get out of it okay? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. Well, he had a stick with him. Beat them off with a stick. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: When you -- obviously, when you -- when you first started out, you were saying that you had dog teams. And did you have motor for your skiff at that point? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. Yeah, we had a motor for the skiff.

MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Motors for skiffs must have come in about the first thing? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: You know, in terms of mechanized? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Oh, yeah. Yeah. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: And then the skidoos were -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: They didn't come in until -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: I guess actually airplanes would have been next. MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: And then -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Motors -- well, you always had a power boat, what you call a power boat, you know. It had one of those conversions with a motor in it. Then the outboard finally came along. There was the old Evinrude and pretty good sized skiff and a kicker on it. And that was how we get (inaudible.) MS. JUDITH MORRIS: In Reindeer Bay? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah, around the bay. And all over. Travelling. Years ago. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: How did you get mail when you were living over in Goose Bay? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Dog team. Summertime it came by boat. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: By the time you came back, mail was coming in on a plane? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. So that the mail -- the planes came in, and then the next thing that would come along would be the Snow-Gos or the skidoos? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. Snow machines. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: And then the ATVs after that. MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: And when did cars first come? I mean -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Oh, we had cars years ago. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Did you? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. (Inaudible.) MS. JUDITH MORRIS: For hauling freight and stuff like that? MR. DANNY ROEHL: I don't really know what they could have hauled freight for or whatever. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: What about here in Kokhanok? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No. Vehicles came here. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: And they were brought up from the bay on boats or something? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No, they came in over the Portage. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Oh, from -- by the Portage, now, you mean from -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Iliamna Bay to Pile Bay. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: And so that stuff gets brought over. Is somebody still there in the summer -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Oh, yeah. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: -- that -- that still does that? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. Ray. Ray Williams is still there. His dad had -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Is that called Williamsport on the map? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. Carl Williams used to have it, and then -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: So much of this stuff that you guys use comes over that Portage as opposed to coming up the Kvichak? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Well, most of the stuff that we get, usually building material come both ways. Like when I built the lodge up there, that came from Naknek. That came up from -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Hum. MR. DANNY ROEHL: And a lot of it they fly in. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: You have a big enough runway now -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: -- to handle big planes? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. Well, the biggest plane that's supposed to land here is a C-47. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Do you -- do you know that runway up off of Big Mountain? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yes. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Did they ever land stuff there? Wasn't that a pretty big runway? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah, well, that was for when they were building that White Alice site down there. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Okay. So that was strictly for the White Alice site that was down there? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. Most of the other stuff was landed in Iliamna.

MS. JUDITH MORRIS: You've been back in the Kokhanok area now for about 30 years. MR. DANNY ROEHL: No, 20 years. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: 20 years. Oh, I thought you said you came back in '66. But you came back in the '70s. MR. DANNY ROEHL: That's when we moved here. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Okay. So 20 years. MR. DANNY ROEHL: She was -- yeah, she was coming in. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Okay. Okay. But I'm just curious, so you left like in '48 -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: -- as a young man, and so you've come back approximately 30 years later. MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yes. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: What was the biggest difference that you saw? So what was your biggest surprise when you came back after being gone, basically, for 30 years? What was the biggest change? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Well, actually, I -- there really wasn't a change for me because we had been coming back and forth and I knew that all this stuff had -- (indiscernible.) MS. JUDITH MORRIS: So you had just kind of changed with -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: -- everything else that was going on? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. Like anyplace else, I mean, you know -- I imagine if somebody went to stateside and never came back for years, then they would be surprised. But me being local and I traveled to the village all the time, so I really wasn't surprised. When I was living in Anchorage, I worked for BIA for three seasons, and I -- (inaudible.) Then came back, you know, 30 years later, then I would be surprised. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Do you see or do you feel like there were major changes in how you -- in how the land was perceived when you were growing up? Was it -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Oh, yeah. Big change in the land part of it. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. MR. DANNY ROEHL: I mean, before, when I was growing up, there was no such thing as a line that stopped you -- for your corporations, and then you've got big change and it was a change for the worse. You know, they -- help the native people, but actually it didn't help us, it made it worse for us. Like anybody who wanted to start a business or want to sit on the board and stuff, make it so bad that -- be that way, but the way that they designed it and stuff that it just made it worse for all of us. That was all before the Settlement Act ever went through, you know -- it would belong to the corporation, they want (indiscernible), but you can't do nothing with it. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Which corporation do you belong to? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Well, with the Kokhanok Corporation, but we merged now with Alaska Peninsula Corporation. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: You and Nellie both belong to this one?

MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Having -- having Katmai National Park and Preserve been detrimental to you or good for you or? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No. It made it worse for the native people. All these parks are bad for the native people. You know, all these parks are all stateside. People from the states make them into big parks. The oil and stuff, they are not going to be there forever, and they are not hurting the land up (indiscernible.) They all sit there and go, got to have progress. I mean, you can't stop it. You can't go back. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Has -- has the village -- I guess do you personally or does the village, do they want to see tourists in here or sports hunters or sports -- you know, fishing -- fishers? MR. DANNY ROEHL: The village people don't want them in here. The elders don't want them here. Because they were -- they were told that the people are going to come and take stuff away from them, they wouldn't have it no more. Have control, if the people have control of the village, you bring tourists in, okay, you show them what you want to show them because they don't know what they want to see. You have to show those people. You show them around and stuff, and then you get two generations learned. You know,the younger kids -- if you just stop and think that -- money, they will be -- outlive and they will be happy that they are staying with the people that's in the village. The younger ones are finally waking up and realizing that they are going to have to do something. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Do you think people who come in or if you have -- like you have a lodge and so you have people coming up there. Do you think the people who come in are, like, respectful of your resources, be it trees and water or animals or whatever? Do you ever worry about that? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: No? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Just like I say, the people, you know, you're the one that's guiding these people. If they are doing something wrong, you tell them (indiscernible.) If there's nobody there to tell them, then you have to worry. Unguided, and then watch out.

MS. JUDITH MORRIS: So you would -- you support, say, sports hunting if it's got a -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: If it's guided, right. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: If it's guided. If it's regulated in the sense of being -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. It doesn't have to be really guided, but as long as you have got someone in there watching and make sure they don't, not doing what they shouldn't be doing. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Without so many people trapping? Because it seems to me that trapping has really declined. You know, there aren't -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Right. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: -- as many people trapping. Have you noticed an increase or a difference in terms of fur bearing animals, the population numbers? MR. DANNY ROEHL: The beaver, there is. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: The beaver? MR. DANNY ROEHL: The beaver is overrun. There's too many beavers. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. MR. DANNY ROEHL: But other animals, you know, they don't populate that much or whatever, for the simple reason is because that they get overpopulated. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: How do you trap right? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Well, you don't take too many animals. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. And do -- how would you judge that? I'm just thinking in terms of -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Well, when you catch so many fox, you quit. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-huh. You just -- it's just something that you -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: You automatically, well, I mean, that's just the way we were brought up. I mean, you just don't over -- (indiscernible) a lot of them overtrapped them, you know, there's a lot of them -- what the native people do, there was a lot of white people with them. (Inaudible.) MS. JUDITH MORRIS: If you were talking to your children, you know, when you were teaching them how to hunt or fish or whatever, what do you feel the most important thing you taught them was? MR. DANNY ROEHL: One thing was how to handle a gun. Go hunting. And the only time you should go hunting -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Do you ever remember -- I mean, I'm thinking of all the things that have changed from the time that you were a young boy and, you know, now you have your oil-burning stove and you have your electricity and you have running water and you have your freezer, et cetera. Do you think all that technology has made life easier for you? Has it -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Well, to be honest with you -- all the time. You know, like all these people, the trappers had to haul their stuff too. I look at it that it made it harder on the village people by having all this stuff. Lots of stuff now where you can't go back to doing that. So once -- if you didn't teach your kids, you would be in trouble if you didn't have a home course or whatever. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Do you think that that's been a change in terms of how the youth listen to or respect or -- elders? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Well, the younger ones got no respect no more, for the elder people. (Inaudible) they pick you up and whip your butt (indiscernible) with them and you had respect for them. And like I say, you know, you (indiscernible) because you got it again.

MS. JUDITH MORRIS: When you were -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Nowadays -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Oh, go ahead. MR. DANNY ROEHL: You can't touch them. Like I say, you know. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: When you were growing up, was your family Russian Orthodox? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Mother was. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Your mother was? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Was there any authority of the church -- did you have a chief? MR. DANNY ROEHL: In the -- no, not in the village. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Because you lived in too small of an area. MR. DANNY ROEHL: We didn't have a church where we were. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: So in terms of the Russian holidays and the Russian chiefs and stuff -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Mother used to travel once in awhile up to Pedro Bay or whatever -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: To go to -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: -- to attend the Russian festivals and stuff like that. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: But you didn't grow up -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: No. Or there would be people that would come down. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. When you moved here to Kokhanok, did you have to get permission to build this house from anyone? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Well, you see, when I moved into Kokhanok, what Johnny wanted me to do was to go ahead and build a clinic. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. MR. DANNY ROEHL: Council and corporation. I got all my paperwork done. And I learned that it wasn't the village people. It was just -- (inaudible.) MS. JUDITH MORRIS: It was his? MR. DANNY ROEHL: (Inaudible.) I came over and looked at it and it wasn't that good of ground over there. (Inaudible.) (Indiscernible.) Generator, there's no generator up there (indiscernible) and I told them that it was six days, seven days a week. And I made enough money by leasing them the camp, it didn't cost me a penny. I made money. That year we took off and we went to Hawaii. And Sharon and Doyle was in town then. So we took off and we left. I hired them -- because there was a lot of groceries in there. Come back. Anyway, when we was gone, he filed a -- he filed on this land, on 14 C, (indiscernible) building your house down there. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: So I imagine that these kinds of property things have all changed over the years. MR. DANNY ROEHL: Oh, yeah. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: That -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: But he should have never told me (indiscernible) when I went up there. 1968, he filed on the land. By then, all that land was surveyed, Simmie's land was surveyed and everything, so they didn't change it. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: That's where you had your lodge? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. Uh-hum. I put it on her side.

MS. JUDITH MORRIS: This is side 2 with Danny Roehl, still August 7th, 1997, in Kokhanok. Okay, Danny. MR. DANNY ROEHL: When I was growing up like for picking berries, I guess. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Fall time? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. In the beginning of the year we would take off and go for smokehouse wood. You know -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Over towards -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Over on where the Efim squirrels are. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Oh, okay. Efim, Efim, E-F-I-M? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. Efim squirrels there (inaudible.) MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Squirrel. Okay. Efim squirrel. MR. DANNY ROEHL: And we would go over there all the time for birds and stuff, wood. Get wood there. Also to go over there and hunt squirrels for parka squirrels. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Would your mother use those for making -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah, she used those for making parkas. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Okay. So you were talking -- before the phone rang, you were talking about squirrels being used for parkas and -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. We used to use them for food even. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Did you boil them or roast them or? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No, we usually baked them. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Bake them? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. Same thing with muskrat. WE used to eat muskrat. (Indiscernible.) I never ate the beaver meat, everybody else ate beaver, but I never ate beaver or porcupine. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Why did you quit eating muskrat and squirrel? Because you quit trapping them or -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. More or less, nobody goes out and trap them very much. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. MR. DANNY ROEHL: We don't even use (inaudible.) MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Do you hunt those or do your grandkids hunt them for you or -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: No, I usually go out and hunt them myself. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Nellie still hunt? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No, she don't hunt. She -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Oh, she doesn't like the guns. MR. DANNY ROEHL: No. (Inaudible.) Once in awhile Clint would bring us meat or duck. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: When do you normally get your -- I shouldn't say you specifically, but when does the village normally get geese or ducks? Do they -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Springtime, fall time. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Both fly over? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah, whenever they are going over, or whatever. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. Do you guys go out and collect eggs, gull eggs or duck eggs? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. Yeah, they go collect them all the time. In the spring. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Do you ever save them or do you just use them fresh? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No, I use them fresh. I never tried to save them. Yeah, always. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Can you remember your mom ever being able to save them? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No. No. We never did (inaudible.) MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Commercial dry eggs? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: That you bought from someone? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. Uh-hum. Always came in a can. They were far in between. But we had a lot of bacon.

MS. JUDITH MORRIS: How would you get your -- did you get meat up from -- in barrels? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Nope. Only meat we ever ate was the small game that we killed. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Oh, okay. Well, you said bacon. MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah, well, I mean bacon, (indiscernible) I was talking about that slab bacon. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Oh, okay. That's what I was thinking. MR. DANNY ROEHL: The slab. (Indiscernible.) When we came home from fishing, we always bought -- we always bought what they called a grub keg. And that was in the canners and it's got all your flour and sugar and all the dried stuff in that. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Did you ever -- did you ever set a net under the ice? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No, not really. We never -- most of the time we either just went and fished it. We never -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Just jigged through the ice? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Uh-huh. Fishing through the ice. No, there was people we knew that set nets under the ice, but we never had no reason to. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Have you ever seen a forest fire up here or a tundra fire? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No. The closest we've ever been to fire was back in the Mount Katmai area. A lot of smoke, but we never seen the fire. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: You never saw the fire, you never saw a tundra fire? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No. Huh-uh. Fight spot fires here, not in the area here. The spot fires (indiscernible.) MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Yeah. (Indiscernible.) MR. DANNY ROEHL: Imagine be going up to (indiscernible) and it would show up. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: And you haven't ever seen one in this area either? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: What about the fluctuating water? Like right now, it looks quite low to me. MR. DANNY ROEHL: It is low. It's awful low. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: And have you seen that pattern before? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. Not as bad as this year or last year. You know, in '74, it happened. Not -- not like it was last -- we've always had high and low water, you know, springtime (inaudible). The water would be (indiscernible.) MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Do you think the weather is changing? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Oh, yeah. It's been changing. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: In what way? MR. DANNY ROEHL: It's getting warmer and warmer. (Indiscernible.) Cold. Oh, I could remember when we used to get four foot of snow on the level on the ice. You know. Older than me, I would say he is probably about 10 years older than I am. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Do more people go through the ice now than used to? I mean, it seems like every winter I hear about somebody going through the ice. MR. DANNY ROEHL: Well, you do because you are travelling much faster. You know, I mean you've got your -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: And you would see the -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. The dogs would see it right away. Like our dogs, our leader would never let you go out onto that ice. He wouldn't go out onto that ice.

MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Who were the -- who were the passengers you would take, fishermen going down or -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: There would be fishermen come through Iliamna Bay. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. Uh-hum. They would come across the Portage and then you would pick them up in your boat and you would take them down? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Uh-hum. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: These are fishermen coming from the Lower 48. MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. Uh-hum. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Mainly? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. That and Southeast. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Southeast Alaska? MR. DANNY ROEHL: A lot of fishermen come from Southeast. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. When you were living at Chekok and maybe even when you were -- while here, you haven't had running water that long, you would cut holes in the ice for your water? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. In the wintertime, yeah, we always had a hole in the ice. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: And were there lots of holes in the village or did everybody have their own hole? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No. Right here in the village, this village here, we just had the one hole. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. And everybody would just use the same water hole? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Everybody would just come down to the water hole and run out and get the water. When we lived over there in Goose Bay over there, we had two water holes. Don't ask me why, but we had them. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Before you had an ATV, how did you pack your water? MR. DANNY ROEHL: By hand. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Did you have a -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yoke. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: -- yoke, a wooden yoke, a neck yoke? Did you guys make those yourself. MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Or did you buy them somewhere? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Well, everything you -- everything you had over here you made. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Do you think you were healthier? Do you think people were healthier earlier on? MR. DANNY ROEHL: I think there were healthier or not, but I know they were stronger -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. MR. DANNY ROEHL: Then the generation now. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: When you were a young boy, did you have any radio, VHF, or CB or anything? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No. No, no, no, no. The only thing we had was an AM. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: That you would get out of Anchorage or Homer or? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. I used to listen to Anchorage. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Must have listened to that all over the United States, huh. MR. DANNY ROEHL: And the Lone Ranger. It always come on in the evening time, used to lay down and listen to them all the time. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. But you have a CB now, obviously, and -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Oh, yeah. VHF, portable. We used to use CB's, but there was too much zip on them. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Okay. MR. DANNY ROEHL: (Inaudible) boosters on the antenna. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: When you lived up in -- on Nielsen Bay, you know, those years. MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Did you have like a regular check-in on the radio? Did people call around to be sure that everybody was okay if you lived out? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No, you had your radio on all the time. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: But you didn't have like a regular -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: No, we didn't have a schedule, no.

MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. Uh-hum. Do you remember any interesting people coming through that you remember as a child, or -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Oh, I can remember a lot of interesting people when they stayed at the roadhouse in -- hello, Mr. Roehl, I said, hello. You don't remember. 30, and then in the '60s, he still recognized me as a Roehl. But a lot of them were pilots. You know, like Roy Dixon. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: That went through the roadhouse when you were at the roadhouse? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Always flying around and coming in and out. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Uh-hum. MR. DANNY ROEHL: Star Airlines. I think that was Art -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: I was going to say that was Northern Consolidated, I think. MR. DANNY ROEHL: And -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: What do you think -- MR. DANNY ROEHL: Old Dr. Salazar used to come in. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: -- biggest challenge facing, say, your kids is going to be in terms of staying in the Bush, out here in the village here? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. (Inaudible.) MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Is that going to be right here? MR. DANNY ROEHL: Yeah. And that's it. About the only reason now (inaudible) in the village (inaudible.) MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Anything else? I've been working you hard tonight. MR. DANNY ROEHL: Not that I can -- not that I can think of. And like I said, I've got to get my brain to working. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Yeah. MR. DANNY ROEHL: (Inaudible) work. You should have came when Charlie -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Charlie? MR. DANNY ROEHL: My brother. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Was he here today? MR. DANNY ROEHL: No, he left yesterday. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Oh. Uh-hum. MR. DANNY ROEHL: If he was here -- MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Two of you could get going. MR. DANNY ROEHL: -- to talking about way back, you know. MS. JUDITH MORRIS: Where does he live now? MR. DANNY ROEHL: He lives in Anchorage. They all live in -- all my family live in Anchorage. (End of recorded session.)