Project Jukebox

Digital Branch of the University of Alaska Fairbanks Oral History Program
Otis Ahkivgak, Part 2
Otis Ahkivgak

This is a continuation of the recording of Kenneth Toovak providing a verbal English summary translation of an interview he conducted in Iñupiaq with Otis Ahkivgak on December 8, 1979 in Barrow, Alaska. The interview was for UAF researchers Dr. Lewis Shapiro and Ron Metzner on the project Historical References to Ice Conditions Along the Beaufort Sea Coast of Alaska (Scientific Report, Geophysical Institute, University of Alaska Fairbanks, 1979). Kenneth summarizes each of the four original tapes made with Otis on separate new tapes. Ron Metzner is with Kenneth, asking clarifying questions. Unfortunately, the location of the original Iñupiaq tapes is unknown; the UAF Oral History Collection only has these English audio translations and their transcripts. In this second part of a four part interview recorded on January 6, 1980 Kenneth talks about Otis talking about ice, wind and current on the Beaufort Sea coast around Beechey Point, Cape Halkett, Milne Point and Cross Island, getting caught out on the moving ice, and whaling at Cross Island.

Digital Asset Information

Archive #: Oral History 97-64-05_PT.2

Project: Sea Ice Project Jukebox
Date of Interview: Jan 6, 1980
Narrator(s): Otis Ahkivgak, Kenneth Toovak
Interviewer(s): Kenneth Toovak, Ronald Metzner
Transcriber: Lisa Krynicki
Location of Interview:
Funding Partners:
North Pacific Research Board
Alternate Transcripts
There is no alternate transcript for this interview.
Slideshow
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Sections

Ice conditions around Cape Halkett

Living at Pole Island

Ice formation in the fall

Grounding of large pieces of multi-year ice

Seal hunting on the ice and at the open lead

Being out on the ice until 4th of July

Getting caught out on the crumbling ice near Milne Point

Wind and ice near Beechey Point

Trading with Captain Pederson and moving to Cross Island

Story about a whale hunting trip at Cross Island

Chasing and striking the whale

Towing the whale back to Cross Island

Butchering the whale on Pingok Island

Trying to figure out the date of this whale hunt

Click play, then use Sections or Transcript to navigate the interview.

After clicking play, click a section of the transcript to navigate the audio or video clip.

Transcript

RON METZNER: We're translating the second tape of Otis Ahkivgak.

KEN TOOVAK: Yeah. Ahkivgak.

RON METZNER: Kenneth Toovak is translating. And we're beginning -- the end of the last tape he was -- he had married one of -- Taaqpak?

KEN TOOVAK: Peter Taaqpak's daughter.

RON METZNER: Taaqpak's daughter. And (inaudible) twenty seven.

This is a test to see if it works in a sideways mode. It seems to be recording alright.

KEN TOOVAK: Question -- to Otis, asking whether he's -- when did he returning towards east from Barrow. But Otis mentioned that on the -- on the 1918 they were at -- at Cape Halkett and -- and then they were moving further east from Cape Halkett.

So in other words, they moved further east from 1918.

Question the years past -- after 1918, the question that I ask: when Otis happened to do any trapping out on the ice, that the -- the question was whether there was, used to be some ice ridges formed and whether there's some polar ice grounded in the area.

And Otis say that sometimes not all the time, but most all times that there used to be some ridges -- ridges formed not knowing exactly how high they -- they -- they piled up. But -- but they do.

The ice piled up due to -- to the -- to the winds and the currents and also the polar ice grounded in -- in between Cape Halkett and -- and -- and Oliktok.

So in other words, polar ice grounded in between Cape Halkett and Oliktok.

At the time when he's -- he was spending years at Cape Halkett, he used to have some -- some seal nets put in the seal hole, along side the seal hole and -- and just keep checking on his seal nets to keep him kinda moving right along.

After spending at -- years at Cape Halkett, they move further east to the name was Pole Island. Pole Island. In other words, just other side of Tigvariak Point.

When they got to Pole Island, they made a -- another iglu there at Pole Island. The -- there was another two other families that -- that -- that went with Otis when they moved from -- from Cape Halkett.

Aŋnavigaraq and Lynn Koganak family. The -- the -- the mother to Lynn's wife were along.

And -- and at that time. Excuse me, there was another -- another family named Agñiiñ. Another family named Utuayuglak. Utuayuglak.

Yeah, also Taaqpak, the old man Taaqpak were along. Matter of fact, Taaqpak was the -- the lead man for the whole, the families that were moving at the time.

Okay -- yeah, the -- correction on the -- the total of a -- the families that -- that were moving at the time with Taaqpak was lead man for the whole fa -- for the whole total of six families.

When spending time at Pole Island, Otis Ahkivigak had a -- a bit of a canoe type kayak. Which he used for hunting and this and that.

Question, how does the, the ice start to forming in -- in fall? And so Otis say when weather gets cooler and cooler depending on -- on how strong the wind is, the ice forms more rapidly when the wind is kinda calm.

After the ice form when the wind picked up, and after the ice -- I mean the water have been formed icing, when the wind picked up kinda bit in shore wind, like northeasterly wind, the -- the ice crumbled up -- crumbled up and then the -- and then the -- gets kinda bit of a layers and layers of it.

And then that way the ice gets more likely -- kinda bit -- gets thicker -- quicker like.

The one that we called, that crumbled ice, it's -- we call it slush. Slush ice. And after that slush gets kinda bit frozen the -- the man can no longer start walking on it, on that ice after it kinda buckled up and called it slush.

And the man start walking on it in no time, and then -- and then no longer Otis -- start -- hunting and going out further and further to look for polar bears.

RON METZNER: Yeah -- correction on that --

KEN TOOVAK: Yeah, correction -- on the walkin' on that slush after -- after like overnight bit of freeze -- frozen over -- a man can walk on it -- on the ice next day.

RON METZNER: Yeah, so it's can, not -- not cannot. It's can.

KEN TOOVAK: Yeah.

RON METZNER: Can walk on that ice.

KEN TOOVAK: Yeah. After the ice gets thicker, like I say a while ago that Otis went out further and further. In other words, as soon as the ice gets thicker Otis always spent days -- days out there on the ice. Camping, hunting and trapping.

And in other words, the open lead -- you -- you have to go, when you go by dog team it takes time to get out there. So in other words, takes -- takes Otis maybe a -- a -- a good days traveling to get -- to get to the open lead.

Some years -- some years there always some polar ice grounded -- grounded to the bottom and then -- and then the ice crumbled up and make some ridges.

And in bet -- and in between the -- the polar ice there always some flat spots where the water freezes over. Makes kinda easier to travel on by dog team.

Question was which -- what direction wind does the -- does the bring those polar ice into in order to get them grounded.

So the northeasterly wind brings the ice in towards the shore and then grounded the pieces of polar ice and then form -- forming ice in between the -- those polar ice.

Talking about the -- what time the -- of the year those polar ice are grounded.

So in other words there was a question in -- in fall after the northeasterly wind and grounded the -- the polar ice -- and then when the wind shifted over to a south wind and the tide came and -- and then -- in other words, before the ice really gets thick in between the polar ice, the -- the -- the south wind comes up and then the tide came up and then the -- in other words the ice drift away with the -- with the polar ice that are not really -- really grounded firmly to the bottom.

In the winter months, he do hunting all the way to the lead -- all the way to the open lead.

And at one time took Lynn Koganak -- went out hunting with him when the weather -- I mean -- when the kinda bit late winter like a month of -- oh -- early spring.

Took Lynn Koganak out and then camping out there for days with him.

At the time when they were out hunting, the -- that in the spring when the -- when the ice start to rotting out, always some seals on the ice and Otis kill seals and -- but Lynn Koganak don't have real good sighting in his eyes.

I -- he always have a bit of a difficult to -- to hit the seal due to the conditions of his eyes.

And then when Otis went out walking and hunting away from their main camp, he ran into ugruk -- that's a bearded seal -- he shot him and --

After a shot one ugruk, and then went out further south from -- from their camp, saw another two bearded seals and sneak at them, and -- and then shot the biggest one and while he's watching the second one he gave them another shot and then caught two -- two ugruks that were on the ice all in the same spot.

And they find out they were male and a female.

After the next day, they took their sleds and then go bring the ugruks -- bearded seals -- back to their camp.

And then -- and then after they got back to their -- to their camp, they were camping right closed to the, where -- where the lead opened in and out.

So, they saw a -- a black spot right at the edge of the open lead and they find out that there was a walrus on the ice sleeping.

And then went out and shot the walrus which the -- the animal was spending a year -- spend the winter out in that area.

So after catch that walrus, which the animal was the male, and the tusks were broken up and -- and kinda bit shortened due to the -- due to the wore out of the ivory tusks, he was a pretty old male that they shot.

And then the ice start to get some more rotten out, they start to head in to their rest of the families and -- in other words they don't even keep track of the -- the days, what really the days were. Find out that July 4th was approaching on them before they know it.

Let me ask you --

Yup. On the way back to their -- to their families, to the -- to the -- to the islands, there was -- there always some kinda bit of a clear water as they go in towards the shore.

So in other words, they saw a bunch of Iqalukpiks that were traveling in schools. In that they saw in several places as they stopped this and there, every now and then.

The -- the king salmon, the eskimo name is Iqulugruaq. And -- and that Iqalukpik is like a family to -- to king salmon.

So, I don't know what really the name -- the English name for it.

These fish of what Otis and Lynn saw, they know in -- after the ice melted in between the -- the barrier islands and the -- and the shore ice they catch these fish, Iqalukpik, in the summer months with -- in same net.

And catch several of 'em in -- in one -- at each one time.

So, as they were walking and pulling their sleds towards -- to their family, they saw a flag at their -- at their -- at their families that they have left. They saw a flag up on the pole as they were approaching their -- their -- their families.

As they finally got to the -- to their -- to their families, when they first saw the flag on -- on top -- on the end of the pole they thought -- they thought that their -- their -- they were kinda wondered whether the -- one of the families were in problem or in trouble when they saw that flag.

Not understanding that it was -- it was July Fourth. And then when they got to their families they were kinda sad feeling, but soon as they find out that it was July Fourth they felt much happier.

They left -- they left their -- the -- the meat of which what they catch, part of the -- the walrus meat and some of the -- those bearded seal meat that they had left out there.

There was a big -- good size floating ice grounded in fall and then northeasterly wind and -- and south wind when -- along with the current moving when the -- when the ice is moving, this polar ice was well firmed grounded and then there was addition -- addition ice piled up around it and it gets it kinda bigger.

So -- so they left their meat at -- in that spot. So they went out with -- with a -- a bit of a way smaller canoe that was -- that they have around -- around their -- around their camp which they use for hunting this and that. And so they took that small canoe and then went after their meat.

After spent one or two days with their families.

There was a question what year they were out there hunting. So that was either after five years from 1918 or sixth year.

In other words, either 1923 or 1924 the time when they were -- when Otis and Lynn were out hunting.

On returning to the leftover meat of what -- af -- of what they catch, so Otis make another addition that speaking about that ice that -- where they left their meat, it was a good size polar ice and then make another addition when the ice piled up around it.

In other words it makes that island -- I mean that float -- polar ice much bigger by piling from both sides of the -- of that polar ice.

RON METZNER: Okay.

KEN TOOVAK: After spend at few years at Pole Island, they moved back into -- back to Milne Point. That's about roughly -- oh -- twelve miles west of Beechey Point.

That's Milne Point. I do question Otis, after the ice formed -- form for the winter and not much of a -- a polar ice grounded between the -- the open lead and the shore ice.

Question, say like if the wind shift over to south, wind kinda high winds, whether the ice will go away after the ice has been frozen over for the winter.

So in other words, when the -- Otis -- Otis Ahkivigak have noticed the ice moving -- moving at one time when he's out hunting from Milne Point, from the wind -- from south wind.

One day, from Milne Point after they make another -- another -- another house there at Milne Point, one day Otis went out hunting, should be first part of January before the sun rises.

Which up here the first seen the sun used to be -- used to be somewhere around -- around the 21st or 22nd due to the overcast. So before the sun rises, which like I say first part of -- oh -- January or -- or somewhere around mid-January.

But kinda warm and calm. Went out hunting and then -- and made -- made him a little bit of a camp out there for the -- for the night.

Where, where he's spending -- spending the night. For the night, all he do just set up -- set his little tent rather than making a snow shelter.

So, on the way out during the day there was some -- some ice movement which, the -- crossing over some cracks -- fresh cracks between -- between the shore -- shore which in other words right off from barrier islands he ran into some of the cracks -- fresh cracks -- even though the -- there were -- there was hardly any -- any winds at the time when he was going out.

So he just kept on going. Kept on going and then finally got to the good piece of polar ice so he made himself a camp there for the night.

During the -- the night sleep and the wind picked up and then south wind and start shakin' his tent and -- and then he put more stuff to support his tent due to the wind cond -- due to the wind.

And then he tied his dogs out in the yard and so he got -- got his dogs loose in case the ice start to pile up.

And then he got the empty can he hang it on inside of his little tent.

He hang it and that way to find out the -- when the ice -- where his tent is when the ice start to move and that he'll -- when the -- that can start to move that he -- he can find out that -- that he will be drifting out then. Okay.

After spending nights in that tent, he heard some ice crumbled up while the middle of the night, couldn't see any further than a -- than a few feet ahead of him due to the wind storm and -- the -- the wind -- the weather daylight break and he went out from his tent and then the ice had been quite a lot of movement -- movements.

Not really crumbled up around -- around the piece of ice where he set his tent. But they -- there were some cracks and -- about all over around him.

So late part of the day the wind died down after swing -- swing to west. The wind died down and then -- and then spent another night. After next day when the daylight break the weather gets cold and he thought -- he thought for sure he was way drifted further east from where he take off.

What happened at the time when that -- when he spent time -- couple days on that ice, he headed south from where he was and then -- and got to the beach right below Beechey Point. In other words he was drifted out but -- but just a few miles due to the kind of a drag from the bottom.

RON METZNER: On the polar ice?

KEN TOOVAK: On the -- on the polar ice. So, so that's -- in that same time when Pete Sovalik and the rest of the companions that -- when they were out hunting on that ice. It happened the same -- same time that -- that -- Pete was drifted out.

RON METZNER: The same year?

KEN TOOVAK: Same year and same time -- same time of the --

RON METZNER: That was in January?

KEN TOOVAK: Yeah. So --

Otis make a comment about the weather in that area around Beechey Point and further. The -- the south wind it's always bad, speaking about the storms.

So in other words, even -- even though the hardly any winds from south wind -- they always some tide came and then -- and then some force of ice hit of the area where where he -- where the person is, there always some ice movement due to the current -- current is running north.

So, in other words the -- even hardly any winds the force of the ice from the current always some -- some movements.

So that's why Otis made a comment about -- about the winds. The south winds.

It's always bad direction wind to see in that area here he's at -- the time when he spent back in 1923 or even 1924.

See what I mean --

RON METZNER: Okay. So you -- you mean during the period he was living around Beechey Point from 1924 --

KEN TOOVAK: Yeah.

RON METZNER: -- on.

KEN TOOVAK: Yeah. Of what Otis understand, the time when he was living back from -- oh 1923, 24, and then back in the general area for later part of 1924 or -- The south wind is always bad.

RON METZNER: Okay. Okay. But -- but the time Pete drifted away was in 1932.

KEN TOOVAK: Yeah. Right. Right.

RON METZNER: Otis -- Otis was still there then --

KEN TOOVAK: Yeah.

RON METZNER: Yeah.

KEN TOOVAK: Otis was still there. We didn't put any exact year of when Otis moved back to Milne Point.

So -- so in other words ni -- back in 1932, that's where -- that's where Otis spent time at Milne and then went out hunting in 1932, the same year what Pete and rest of the companion were drifted away.

RON METZNER: Okay.

KEN TOOVAK: So --

Um -- yeah there was some -- some talk in -- in the tape between myself and Otis what -- what it can do -- this and that.

But the time when Otis was getting ready to go out on that same day that -- that wind was -- will be picking up overnight while spending time -- spending the night out there.

This little girl name Thelma Stine, which I married to, they were staying in that some place at Milne Point with Otis and Taaqpak.

And this girl told Otis when he was getting ready that weather will get -- get foggy and -- and Otis didn't pay much attention when -- when she told him that the weather was gonna get kinda soggy and foggy and so -- so Otis didn't believe it of what she told him then he realized that after the -- after -- after -- when it happened.

Those things happened a person always find -- find out later. Sometimes a person always know ahead of time of what's gonna happen for the future. Okay.

RON METZNER: Now changing to side two of this fi -- of this second tape on Otis.

KEN TOOVAK: After spending a few years there, they -- they had a inboard motor which -- Otis never knew exactly how long it is, but anyway they got it from -- got -- Taaqpak got that boat -- a little good size one from -- from a fellow named Pederson.

The -- the ship that used to go up there for trading some groceries and supplies to the people that lived in that area. And trade them off with some --with the people that catch foxes or bear skins and what all -- seal skins and odd-and-ends.

So they got that boat and then one -- one fall Taaqpak went out whale hunt from Milne up -- up -- up to Cross Island.

And then -- and then they went up to Cross Island I figure to take off from Cross Island out to hunt.

He trade this -- the first boat to Pederson.

RON METZNER: Uh-huh.

KEN TOOVAK: A fella named Pederson. Like I say a while ago that a man used to go up there to trade. So first they got that small ship -- what -- what -- what it was called -- yacht or whatever it was called.

He traded out to this longer and bigger so that's the one that they use when they went out hunting at this time from Milne. And then spent few days there at Cross Island due to the wind condition.

RON METZNER: Okay. They went -- they went hunting at the Stein?

KEN TOOVAK: Huh?

RON METZNER: Did you say "at the Stein" or "with the Stein?"

KEN TOOVAK: No. No.

RON METZNER: At -- at this time.

KEN TOOVAK: Yeah. At this time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

RON METZNER: Okay. Okay, so they're mainly talking about hunting. Whale hunting?

KEN TOOVAK: Yeah.

RON METZNER: And so this -- this section they just talked about whale hunting?

KEN TOOVAK: Yeah. They -- yeah. Yeah, that's when they were talking about on this section.

RON METZNER: On -- on how to hunt whales? Or just --

KEN TOOVAK: Well -- they were en route hunting. And then they spent a few --

RON METZNER: Two days at Cross --

KEN TOOVAK: A few days there at Cross Island due to the wind.

RON METZNER: Okay.

KEN TOOVAK: High winds.

RON METZNER: So he's just describing the hunting trip.

KEN TOOVAK: Yeah.

RON METZNER: Okay.

KEN TOOVAK: So -- so that's --

RON METZNER: Okay.

KEN TOOVAK: So that's just a -- a routine topic.

RON METZNER: Right.

KEN TOOVAK: Yeah.

RON METZNER: Okay.

KEN TOOVAK: Finally, the -- the -- the wind died down one morning and then they take off and went out whale hunting. So they go for hours and hours and finally just about straight out from Cross Island.

RON METZNER: Uh-huh.

KEN TOOVAK: And they went out -- they went out hours and hours and hours and they finally got to the -- to the ice.

RON METZNER: Uh-huh.

KEN TOOVAK: Over on the horizon. And then, then soon they -- soon they saw a whale spout.

RON METZNER: Uh-huh.

KEN TOOVAK: And -- so they got to the area where the whale was spouting and -- and -- and they all, most all the crew, leaving one person in the boat in that -- that yacht -- that yacht there. And then they were towing one of those whale boat. But I subscribe --

RON METZNER: The wooden whale boat?

KEN TOOVAK: Wooden whale boat.

RON METZNER: Okay.

KEN TOOVAK: They were towing one of those and then with a sail.

RON METZNER: Yeah, yeah.

KEN TOOVAK: So they take off with that sail boat and went after that whale. Due to the noise -- due to get away from that noisy --

RON METZNER: Noise.

KEN TOOVAK: Noise.

Telling a story about -- about that whale hunt. They -- they ran into several whales -- whales. They chased one -- chasing one -- they never had a chance to struck -- struck one.

And there was hardly any wind at the time.

So they chasing and chasing and so they finally one whale popped up right ahead of them -- a big whale.

Popped right in front of 'em. And -- and Otis had orders from old Taaqpak to go to the -- to the front -- to the darting gun.

And then, so this younger -- younger man there named George Agiak was along, so Taaqpak point this George to go to the shoulder gun and they were approaching this whale.

So -- so they -- they aim right to him and aim right to him and pretty soon the whale pop right in front -- right along side the -- the boat of what they were on.

And -- and right along side of them, old Taaqpak told his -- he told Ahkivigak and George to give him a bomb.

Okay, go ahead and bomb him -- you know -- hit him. So the whale just got him well up, and they gave him the bomb. And then old Ahkivigak gave him that harpoon with the darting gun.

RON METZNER: Uh-huh.

KEN TOOVAK: And then -- and then when it -- the darting gun hit the whale it -- it go off, you know. And get off.

RON METZNER: Yeah.

KEN TOOVAK: And then that -- that darting gun fly and then while -- while the darting gun was up in the air Otis just grabbed right before the darting gun gets into -- gets into the water, you know.

RON METZNER: Uh-huh.

KEN TOOVAK: Happened to --

RON METZNER: Grab it.

KEN TOOVAK: -- grab.

RON METZNER: I see.

KEN TOOVAK: So, anyway, he was pretty lucky.

RON METZNER: Yeah, yeah.

KEN TOOVAK: In other words, if that darting gun gets into the water they have to clean it and --

RON METZNER: Yeah. That's good.

KEN TOOVAK: So, takes that salt water and everything. They -- they gave him the bomb and -- and went in the water with the poke and everything, you know.

The whale dive in and -- and then they waited there for a while and waited for a while and then so the -- the whale came up when they struck a few -- few yard -- few yards away from where they were.

And then got up to the surf and -- that was -- So as soon as he got to the surf, the whale died -- the animal died.

And -- and then they turn around and going towards the whale to the -- to the whale -- This little baby whale. They struck that big mother whale.

RON METZNER: Uh-huh.

KEN TOOVAK: And then this -- this little baby whale surf up and then poke and --

RON METZNER: The mother?

KEN TOOVAK: The mother. You know. And -- so they made a scoop -- scoop with the -- with the boat and then -- and old Taaqpak gave -- gave the -- the gunner, "Hey, get that gun ready," you know.

RON METZNER: Uh-huh.

KEN TOOVAK: "Get that gun ready, and then so you could shoot at that -- that smaller whale."

RON METZNER: Uh-huh.

KEN TOOVAK: Small whale. That bigger whale.

RON METZNER: Uh-huh.

KEN TOOVAK: So they got -- approach him and then George gave him a bomb.

RON METZNER: Uh-huh.

KEN TOOVAK: And then -- then he kill him.

RON METZNER: Uh-huh.

KEN TOOVAK: So they didn't have a chance to give him a --

RON METZNER: Darting gun.

KEN TOOVAK: The darting gun. For one thing they didn't put any extra harpoon --

RON METZNER: Yeah.

KEN TOOVAK: -- on board, you know. So they don't have no harpoon, and pretty soon no way of putting in -- putting in a line or -- or anything. Pretty soon it -- it sink.

RON METZNER: Uh-huh.

KEN TOOVAK: So they lost him.

RON METZNER: I see.

KEN TOOVAK: So they -- got this whale that they kill, and put the rope on him and start heading back to Cross Island.

Old Taaqpak gets on the way after they put a rope to it -- take off and with his -- takes this compass and all night gets dark, figure aiming to Cross Island.

RON METZNER: Uh-huh.

KEN TOOVAK: And then they finally found out that the whale was grounded.

RON METZNER: Oh!

KEN TOOVAK: The whale was grounded. So they -- so they spending the night there.

RON METZNER: Uh-huh.

KEN TOOVAK: And -- not knowing where they -- where they were really.

RON MTEZNER: Uh-huh.

KEN TOOVAK: Cut close to the beach, you know?

RON METZNER: Uh-huh.

KEN TOOVAK: And -- the daylight break and sure enough that Cross Island was just a few -- few hundred yards away.

RON METZNER: Okay. So --

KEN TOOVAK: So -- so that was pretty good navigation for old Taaqpak, you know. So -- so when the daylight break, they got to the good piece of ice and go right along side the -- that big piece of -- good piece of ice and then they removed the -- the baleen.

RON METZNER: Uh-huh.

KEN TOOVAK: They removed the baleen. And there was some people living at Cross Island at the time. Pausanna --

RON METZNER: Who?

KEN TOOVAK: Pausan.

RON METZNER: Paulson?

KEN TOOVAK: Pausan, yeah.

RON METZNER: Paulson. KEN TOOVAK: Pausan. Pausan's family and Kingosak .

RON METZNER: Kingosak.

KEN TOOVAK: Yeah. Were living at Cross Island at the time.

RON METZNER: Is Kingosak a family name?

KEN TOOVAK: Yeah. Uh-huh.

RON METZNER:

KEN TOOVAK: So -- so they gave them some -- some maktak and whatever they wanted.

RON METZNER: What year was that?

KEN TOOVAK: I didn't -- I never ask him but maybe I might have asked him later.

RON METZNER: Later. Okay.

KENT TOOVAK: Yeah. This is a long story of what Otis was telling a story about that whale caught.

RON METZNER: Uh-huh.

KEN TOOVAK: When they take off from Cross Island and they landed at Pingok Island.

RON METZNER: Uh-huh.

KEN TOOVAK: So they can't really pull that whale through that channel --

RON METZNER: Uh-huh.

KEN TOOVAK: -- due to the shallow -- it's shallow, you know.

RON METZNER: Uh-huh.

KEN TOOVAK: So they butchered -- butchered it.

RON METZNER: On Pingok Island?

KEN TOOVAK: On Pingok Island.

RON METZNER: I see.

KEN TOOVAK: People from -- from Sikłaqtitaq --

RON METZNER: Where's that?

KEN TOOVAK: That's McIntyre.

RON METZNER: Point McIntyre okay.

KEN TOOVAK: Yeah, McIntyre Point. People were living there and then they -- they saw that boat towing a whale like on the boat. They went over to Milne Point where Taaqpak's family were.

RON METZNER: Uh-huh.

KEN TOOVAK: And -- and the people went out to the Pingok Island to help butcher.

RON METZNER: I see.

KEN TOOVAK: So -- it's a long story about the -- about the whale hunt.

RON METZNER: Did he sing any songs?

KEN TOOVAK: Huh?

RON METZNER: Did he sing any songs in his story? Did he sing any songs in his story?

KEN TOOVAK: No.

RON METZNER: You said on the end of the tape that he caught the whale in 1942.

KEN TOOVAK: Yeah.

RON METZNER: But that can't be right, why?

KEN TOOVAK: So -- due to the -- the year that of what we thought it was killed back in 1942.

RON METZNER: Yeah.

KEN TOOVAK: There was a man mentioned on the talk -- that Piļak --

RON METZNER: Piļak?

KEN TOOVAK: Pi -- the man named Piļak was with -- the time when they were butchering --

RON METZNER: The whale?

KEN TOOVAK: The whale.

RON METZNER: At Pingok Island?

KEN TOOVAK: At Pingok Island. And then -- so -- Piļak -- the man that was froze to death --

RON METZNER: Oh -- in the -- when they drifted away --

KEN TOOVAK: Yeah.

RON METZNER: -- in -- in the '30's.

KEN TOOVAK: Yeah -- yeah -- yeah, back in 1932, roughly.

RON METZNER: Yeah.

KEN TOOVAK: That fella named Piļak was froze to death.

RON METZNER: Okay -- so --

KEN TOOVAK: In that -- in that windstorm when they were drifted out on the ice.

RON METZNER: Uh-huh.

KEN TOOVAK: So there's a miscalculating --

RON METZNER: Time.

KEN TOOVAK: -- on the -- on -- on the time.

RON METZNER: 'Cause he was at the butchering of that whale?

KEN TOOVAK: Yeah.

RON METZNER: That Taaqpak caught.

KEN TOOVAK: Yeah.

RON METZNER: Okay.

KEN TOOVAK: And also Kingosak -- Kingosak was still active when the -- when the Kingosak was living at Cross Island.

RON METZNER: Who was Kingosak?

KEN TOOVAK: That's the one that -- that's the one that was with Pete when they were drifted away.

RON METZNER: Uh-huh.

KEN TOOVAK: And then --

RON METZNER: His feet were crushed --

KEN TOOVAK: -- feet was crushed. Yeah.

RON METZNER: Okay. Okay. So --

KEN TOOVAK: So -- the year --

RON METZNER: -- has to be before --

KEN TOOVAK: -- has to be before 1942.

RON METZNER: Yeah, okay.

KEN TOOVAK: So it's gotta be between 1924 and --

RON METZNER: 1932.

KEN TOOVAK: 1932.

RON METZNER: Okay. Okay. That's it. And that's the end of the second tape of Otis.